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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 01:24am
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I hear what you're saying, and agree that if there was taunting going on, there probably should have been a "T" issued. At the same time, if there is talking between opponents that has the potential to escalate, or even mild "mutual" bumping, but neither is considered sufficient at the time to penalize, then it is generally accepted and fairly common to get them together and have a word, even if that means blowing the whistle to stop play so you can "warn" them. That is appropriate preventative officiating, but after that we need to penalize those behaviors to ensure nothing DOES get out of hand. It's really a judgment call as to whether the first incident was severe enough to be considered taunting, or borderline enough to try to prevent it from going further. But if, for example, someone makes an "awesome" basket, then gets in his opponent's face to celebrate, something like that gets an immediate "T."
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Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 01:58am
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I agree with Todd. I don't do varsity B-Ball yet, but I do var. football and when a player taunts an opponant, it's a flag. I think that even jr high kids have been warned about taunting ( I warn the captains in the mtg.) Most guys in our assoc. tech the first incident, then you don't have the second.
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Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 12:08pm
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Every game we learn something new and yesterday was no exception for me.

I was working a boys varsity game and early in the first quarter my partner stopped the game and warned a player on Team A for taunting.

Later in the second quarter, a player on team A (it happened to be a different player, but it doesn't really matter) addressed an opponent after a dunk and I decided to stop the game and tell the kid to cool it. I really thought nothing of it other than preventive officiating.

As soon as I called the player over, the coach from Team B went crazy because we didn't issue a technical foul after already issuing one warning. While my play was probably not significant enough to issue a 'T', once a warning was already given, the coach sort of had me.

My lesson learned is to add this to my pre-game. Once we warn a player, let's make sure the next time they do something, we give them the 'T' - but make sure they EARN it (no cheap stuff).
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Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 12:56pm
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Sorry to say, but in my opinion, you guys blew it. Or should I say you should have blew it, the whistle that is.

There is no room, in H.S. Basketball, for taunting, unsportsmanlike conduct, or anything remotely close to that.

These games are an extension of the H.S. Academic Program. This is not PRO SPORTS.

We as officials can warn players about 1. Huddling at the free throw line. 2. Breaking the out of bounds boundry on a throw in. 3. Touching the opponents ball after a made basket. These 3 are the only warnings we would "log" in the scorebook.

I believe it is good preventive officiating to "warn" players about the hand checking, three seconds in the key, knee in the post players back, etc. but to let a H.S. player off the hook when he has taunted a opponent is not in the spirit of the game.

But, if you feel you must warn a player about his unsportsmanlike conduct then I would suggest telling him at a break or one on one, and not "stopping the game" to issue a warning that should have been called.

Dan Ivey


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Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 03:13pm
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Agreed high school sports is no place for unsportsmanlike behavior. Playing the game with class will generate more victories. The warning was good, but a technical should have been called on the second offense.
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Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 03:55pm
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I use a strictly enforced ZERO TOLERANCE policy with regards to taunting in HS games (college games too for that matter). There is no place for it. If A1 gets in B1's face and says something, they just bought one. I have never had any problemsw with coaches on the issue and most of them thank me for calling the T. (Even when it goes against them)
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2000, 01:20am
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Kelly and Todd are correct. Taunting is a broad term. if player gets into face of opponent-ring him up. What did the player do?
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2000, 10:41am
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If it was bad enough to blow the whistle and stop play to warn the player, then it was bad enough to T them for the taunt.

Now on the flip side, If it was a minor infraction (not worthy of a T), I'm probably warning the kid on the next opportunity (free throw, throw-in, etc.). And I'm definately letting my partner know so we're on the same page.

------------------
Brian Johnson
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2000, 12:32pm
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quote:
Originally posted by PublicBJ on 02-10-2000 09:41 AM
If it was bad enough to blow the whistle and stop play to warn the player, then it was bad enough to T them for the taunt.



If you see a "situation" developing, whether involving one player or two, it might be too late by the time the next dead ball opportunity arises to have a word with him/them. Better to nip it in the bud right away, even if you have to briefly stop the game. Then the player(s) know you see what is happening, and very likely will knock it off. In my experience, the players respect that approach, the coaches respect and appreciate it, and no one feels it was either inappropriate or slows down the game. In fact, it can and often does enhance game management, all while avoiding having to issue a "T" to settle matters.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2000, 02:05pm
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As a current coach and a former official taunting and poor sportmanship by players is happening more and more. Officials must control this. From what I have observed this year they are not.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2000, 02:46pm
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Thumbs down

I agree with the rest...they earned the "T". You may have said something to the captains before the game. If not, add it, there's their "warning" (if you want to give them a reminder.)
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2000, 02:48pm
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quote:
Originally posted by SCBroncos on 02-09-2000 11:08 AM
Every game we learn something new and yesterday was no exception for me.

I was working a boys varsity game and early in the first quarter my partner stopped the game and warned a player on Team A for taunting.

Later in the second quarter, a player on team A (it happened to be a different player, but it doesn't really matter) addressed an opponent after a dunk and I decided to stop the game and tell the kid to cool it. I really thought nothing of it other than preventive officiating.

As soon as I called the player over, the coach from Team B went crazy because we didn't issue a technical foul after already issuing one warning. While my play was probably not significant enough to issue a 'T', once a warning was already given, the coach sort of had me.

My lesson learned is to add this to my pre-game. Once we warn a player, let's make sure the next time they do something, we give them the 'T' - but make sure they EARN it (no cheap stuff).


E-

This situation really has little to do with the pre-game, other than commmunicating to your partner how you intend on treating unsportsmanlike behavior. As an earlier post mentions, warnings should be used judiciously. Too often players (& coaches) mistakenly believe they are allowed one "warning", probably because officials use it too often rather than enforcing the T. Beleive me, if you start enforcing the rules, you'll be more respected and the games will certainly improve.

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Old Sun Feb 13, 2000, 07:18am
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quote:
Originally posted by mike on 02-10-2000 01:05 PM
As a current coach and a former official taunting and [poor sportmanship by players is happening more and more. Officials must control this. From what I have observed this year they are not.]


I completely disagree with Mike. I believe coaches should be taking care of players sportsmanship. As officials, we have plenty of things to worry about and look for during the game and a players sportsmanship and attitude during a game should not be policed by officials, but should be taken care of by coaches BEFORE the game begins. We should not be a coach's discplinarian, they should take care of it themselves.
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Old Mon Feb 14, 2000, 03:26pm
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Gator-

Yes, the coaches should be responsibile. But what happens when they (too often) don't do their job?

It's our job as officials to take care of it.

We all have our role in detering unsportsmanlike behavior. I think Mike's point is that too many officials think that this has become "part of the game" and are not taking care of business.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

[This message has been edited by pizanno (edited February 14, 2000).]
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Old Tue Feb 15, 2000, 02:31pm
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Fighting in Hockey is "part of the game".

Unsportsmanlike conduct in basketball is not "part of the game".

Now "T"'s, that's "part of the game".
If they were not, provisions for such would not be in the rule book!

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