Plays...

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

The travell is just stupid, should've been called no question about it.
The first video. Well the OOB play is not good but the lead is to close. I've seen it before and I've been there, if you don't back away in that situation you will miss it. Why nobody else stepped in and called that I do not know though, the trail should've been able to make that call without for example.
The second call (elbow) is also due to an error by the lead. He follows the ball insted of watching the players closest to him. That's an error I think we all make though, it's not good but it will happen.

The blocking foul: I think they could've just dropped that and went with a no call. I do realise why the official calls it though becuse from the second angle it's impossible to say if the contact is legal or if the defender uses his side to initate it. Like I said I think they should just've ignored it and played on.

The last play has to be called, I agree with what has already been posted that even though it's just a small bump it forces the dribbler out of bounds and therefore creates a significant advantage for the fouling player. It's not a call you'd love to make but it has to be made, and that's what we're payed for so I don't think there's much more to say about it.

In regards to the blocking foul let me first say, there is absolutely positively no doubt in my mind that this should be a no call regardless of time and score or whatever else. Not saying you should use this as your whole equation but you have to know time and score here. It's a 2 point ball game and this kid is not affected in the least by this, what you could barely even call a slight bump or graze. He hits the shot and its tied, but no instead we have a possible 3 point play. Now if this were a legitimate guys to the floor or just one guy to the floor block/charge play then i might be ok with a foul even in this situation, but imo you cannot give a guy a cheapie like that and put him at the line to win the ball game. That's like calling a handcheck with 1 second left or calling a force out with .1! haha.... oh wait.... that happened!

ok I've went back and watched several different youtube videos of the georgetown/villanova game. It does look like the kid steps out of bounds, but here is my thoughts and breakdown of the play:

The kid gets bumped at .9 then it looks like his foot is out of bounds at .4. You're telling me that this D1 referee doesn't have a patient enough whistle to wait, at most, .9 seconds to whistle an OOB or a foul and declare an overtime. I'm a true believer in the rules, but I'm also a true believer of doing what is right for the game and I put that first above my crew, then my crew comes in second, and I come in last. I don't believe that this was right for this game. These two teams had obviously battled it out (the score was 53 to 53), especially on both teams defensive end. To call a foul such as that one does not entail doing what is right for the game. Now whether the contact by the kid was legitimate illegal contact... that is up for debate. IMO he stops short of contact, but it's just a play full of what ifs? What if he doesn't step on the line, does Bob Donato have anything? What if Brent Barry had just jumped into Fisher when he was in mid air floating toward him? This my friends is why we all have the hardest sport to officiate in the world, I do believe.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

To call a foul such as that one does not entail doing what is right for the game.

Here's what I was taught and what I believe. If you don't make the same call the same way throughout the game, regardless of the score, then you, not the players, are deciding the outcome of the game. It's a simple, logical concept but I can't even count the number of officials who disagree with this philosophy.

Here's an example. With just a few seconds left, it's a one point game. B1 bumps A1, who is dribbling the ball, in the backcourt. You've called this amount of contact a foul the entire game but now, because of the "game situation" you choose not to call it because the contact was not especially "hard". We've all seen an official do something similar numerous times. Let me ask you - if this happens, who is deciding the outcome of the game - the players or the officials? The answer should be obvious, but I know there's tons of you out there who would pass on the call, and there's tons of you out there who think that's the right thing to do.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

In regards to the blocking foul let me first say, there is absolutely positively no doubt in my mind that this should be a no call regardless of time and score or whatever else. Not saying you should use this as your whole equation but you have to know time and score here. It's a 2 point ball game and this kid is not affected in the least by this, what you could barely even call a slight bump or graze. He hits the shot and its tied, but no instead we have a possible 3 point play. Now if this were a legitimate guys to the floor or just one guy to the floor block/charge play then i might be ok with a foul even in this situation, but imo you cannot give a guy a cheapie like that and put him at the line to win the ball game. That's like calling a handcheck with 1 second left or calling a force out with .1! haha.... oh wait.... that happened!

.

What block? A block wasn't called. A hold (or perhaps a hand check was).

Aside form that, the video we saw is so fuzzy that you can't possibly conclude that there was or wasn't some foul in there. When the shooter cut through traffic, he might have gotten whacked across the arm or had someone hanging onto his arm. Can't tell from the video but that seems to be what the Lead's signal implies.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

ok I've went back and watched several different youtube videos of the georgetown/villanova game. It does look like the kid steps out of bounds, but here is my thoughts and breakdown of the play:

The kid gets bumped at .9 then it looks like his foot is out of bounds at .4. You're telling me that this D1 referee doesn't have a patient enough whistle to wait, at most, .9 seconds to whistle an OOB or a foul and declare an overtime. I'm a true believer in the rules, but I'm also a true believer of doing what is right for the game and I put that first above my crew, then my crew comes in second, and I come in last. I don't believe that this was right for this game. These two teams had obviously battled it out (the score was 53 to 53), especially on both teams defensive end. To call a foul such as that one does not entail doing what is right for the game. Now whether the contact by the kid was legitimate illegal contact... that is up for debate. IMO he stops short of contact, but it's just a play full of what ifs? What if he doesn't step on the line, does Bob Donato have anything? What if Brent Barry had just jumped into Fisher when he was in mid air floating toward him? This my friends is why we all have the hardest sport to officiate in the world, I do believe.

And if he doesn't, the other team and media will go on and on about how the ref missed the OOB call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

1) Aside from that, the video we saw is so fuzzy that you can't possibly conclude that there was or wasn't some foul in there.

2) And if he doesn't, the other team and media will go on and on about how the ref missed the OOB call.

1) Yup.

2) Yup, and it then gets posted on youtube exactly the same as the missed OOB call from the Duke-Belmont game was in play #1.

[just another ref]

Place the blame where it lies. Had an 8th grade boys game years ago. Team A ties the score with just a couple of seconds left in the game. Team B quickly inbounds. B1 breaks deep, guarded by A1. B2 throws a long pass into the frontcourt which B1 catches near the sideline. A1 tries to deflect the ball and clobbers B1. I have a whistle, and the clock stops showing 0:00, and we hear a tiny snippet of buzzer. B1 has 2 to make 1 to win the game. He makes the first. Coach A has a screaming fit...........................directed entirely at his player "WHY WERE YOU EVEN CLOSE TO HIM??!"


Bilas: "There is no foul here. You don't call that."

Question for Mr. Bilas: WHY WAS HE EVEN CLOSE TO HIM??!

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Place the blame where it lies. Had an 8th grade boys game years ago. Team A ties the score with just a couple of seconds left in the game. Team B quickly inbounds. B1 breaks deep, guarded by A1. B2 throws a long pass into the frontcourt which B1 catches near the sideline. A1 tries to deflect the ball and clobbers B1. I have a whistle, and the clock stops showing 0:00, and we hear a tiny snippet of buzzer. B1 has 2 to make 1 to win the game. He makes the first. Coach A has a screaming fit...........................directed entirely at his player "WHY WERE YOU EVEN CLOSE TO HIM??!"


Bilas: "There is no foul here. You don't call that."

Question for Mr. Bilas: WHY WAS HE EVEN CLOSE TO HIM??!

Ok well I believe there is a difference in an obvious "clobber" and a "rub". Once again was the georgetown play a foul? that's up for debate. It's def. a b!tch of a play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Ok well I believe there is a difference in an obvious "clobber" and a "rub". Once again was the georgetown play a foul? that's up for debate. It's def. a b!tch of a play.

What would the alternative have been to calling a foul? The player stepped OOB, do we ignore that also? (ps: I'm sure I'm rehashing the same argument made in the original thread)

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What would the alternative have been to calling a foul? The player stepped OOB, do we ignore that also? (ps: I'm sure I'm rehashing the same argument made in the original thread)

Idk, whether you believe it is right or wrong I would have called an OOB call about .5 seconds late, so I'm not ignoring the violation I'm just calling it late and letting the horn go off, so you are not ignoring anything.