Whacked in the stack

[Back In The Saddle]

Wow, none of these are answers I would have expected. This is why I think this is such a great place to learn!

Nev, thanks I really like the idea of getting wider. It seems very obvious now that you mention it. I guess with so much that I could watch right in front of me, it just never occurred to me to change my angle to get a different look at it. I will try that next time and see what happens.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The purpose of officiating mechanics (is) to put an official in the position from which he is most likely to have the best view of the play. They cannot cover all possible situations and when one finds oneself in an oddball situation, don't be afraid to adjust and do whatever is necessary to obtain the best look at the play even if that means temporarily deviating from the prescribed mechanics. The mechanics are just your guide to good officiating, but when you have a valid reason to break those guidelines you have a responsibility to the good of the game to do so. Seeing the play and getting the call correct is more important.

This statement is definitely relevant to this situation. Get the "best look". I also like the statement by bob jenkins, "I'd have the administering official watch his/her side of the stack (and the "end" by the inbounder) and the non-administering official watch the other side (and other end)". This should, hopefully, cover the original post situation.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This statement is definitely relevant to this situation. Get the "best look". I also like the statement by bob jenkins, "I'd have the administering official watch his/her side of the stack (and the "end" by the inbounder) and the non-administering official watch the other side (and other end)". This should, hopefully, cover the original post situation.

Perhaps you meant this as well, but in order to most effectively watch his side of the stack the administering official probably needs to do as Nevadaref suggested and go wide to get an "unstacked" look at the stack.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that the biggest reasons that officials miss severe situations are positioning and area of focus. They are either standing where there are no players and nothing going on or looking at what isn't likely going to be a contact situation when there is a high probability of there being such in another match-up. Recognizing where to be and what to watch are acquired traits of skilled officials.

That is a very astute comment. I believe that you identify the root causes of why officials miss severe contact situations. However, the acquired skill of recognizing when severe contact occurred, and being able to make the split-second decision to process the result and make a sellable, educated guess, can compensate for not having a perfect look. Something to think about. That would be the only time I would ever advocate educated "guessing", to prevent non-basketball escalation that can ruin the game.

I wish it was simple to do, but most misses, whether you see them or not, are the inability to see the play, process the information, make the decision, and pull the trigger in a very short period of time. It is impossible to do that hundreds of times a game without locking up on occasion. I never see or hear much discussion about it though.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

That is a very astute comment. I believe that you identify the root causes of why officials miss severe contact situations. However, the acquired skill of recognizing when severe contact occurred, and being able to make the split-second decision to process the result and make a sellable, educated guess, can compensate for not having a perfect look. Something to think about. That would be the only time I would ever advocate educated "guessing", to prevent non-basketball escalation that can ruin the game.

I wish it was simple to do, but most misses, whether you see them or not, are the inability to see the play, process the information, make the decision, and pull the trigger in a very short period of time. It is impossible to do that hundreds of times a game without locking up on occasion. I never see or hear much discussion about it though.

Perhaps because most good officials aren't all that interested in learning to officiate by guessing?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

However, the acquired skill of recognizing when severe contact occurred, and being able to make the split-second decision to process the result and make a sellable, educated guess, can compensate for not having a perfect look. Something to think about. That would be the only time I would ever advocate educated "guessing", to prevent non-basketball escalation that can ruin the game.

I thought about it. It's a completely wrong.....and dumb premise.

If you have to guess, you shouldn't be making any call....no matter how good a "guesser" you think you might be. The object, believe it or not, is to get the call right. You can't ensure that by "guessing".

Unbelievable......

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I thought about it. It's a completely wrong.....and dumb premise.

If you have to guess, you shouldn't be making any call....no matter how good a "guesser" you think you might be. The object, believe it or not, is to get the call right. You can't ensure that by "guessing".

Unbelievable......

I'll restate my viewpoint. Good, veteran officials have enough feel for the game to not ever miss severe contact than should be called as a foul, regardless of positioning. Severe contact that should be called a foul is so obvious to everyone in the gym that only incompetent officials miss it.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Perhaps because most good officials aren't all that interested in learning to officiate by guessing?

In all seriousness, that comment was in reference to people never discussing the fact that they lock up and don't call fouls that they see. Officials miss a lot of calls, even when they have a great look. It happens. People should just admit it.

Since you want to play word parsing 101, then good officials wouldn't miss severe contact to the head. They'd understand that no matter where they position themselves, they know what is occurring on the floor and what needs to be called. In that situation, they'd be able to see all the players from the lead position, see a head snap back, hear the contact, see a kid start holding his face, and have a really good idea of what to call when they blew the whistle. Pretty basic for a good, experienced veteran official. Tough for an academic.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

In all seriousness, that comment was in reference to people never discussing the fact that they lock up and don't call fouls that they see. Officials miss a lot of calls, even when they have a great look. It happens. People should just admit it.

Since you want to play word parsing 101, then good officials wouldn't miss severe contact to the head. They'd understand that no matter where they position themselves, they know what is occurring on the floor and what needs to be called. In that situation, they'd be able to see all the players from the lead position, see a head snap back, hear the contact, see a kid start holding his face, and have a really good idea of what to call when they blew the whistle. Pretty basic for a good, experienced veteran official. Tough for an academic.

Once I stop laughing uncontrollably, I'll come back and explain to you in very small and easily comprehensible words what a complete load of crap your reply is.

PS. You gotta be good if you're going to be stupid.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Since you want to play word parsing 101, then good officials wouldn't miss severe contact to the head. They'd understand that no matter where they position themselves, they know what is occurring on the floor and what needs to be called. In that situation, they'd be able to see all the players from the lead position, see a head snap back, hear the contact, see a kid start holding his face, and have a really good idea of what to call when they blew the whistle. Pretty basic for a good, experienced veteran official. Tough for an academic.

I get it. You'd call a foul if you saw a head snap back and heard the contact, maybe saw a player holding his face too. There's no real need to actually SEE what happened though. Just guess away at it.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, Goob, but good, experienced veteran officials NEVER freaking GUESS.

Is that where you got the name "The Oracle"? From guessing the future?

Btw, I realize that you're not an official, but if you ever do talk to one, ask them what the term "incidental contact" means. Ask them to explain how contact can be severe, but if it's incidental, it isn't a foul. Maybe they'll also explain to you how they then judge something when they SEE it.

Lah me......