Call The T

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I'm also surprised by the number of people who would rather debate the nuances of the rule for calling a T rather than just calling it what it is...An unacceptable behavior for a varsity HS player...worthy of a T, whichever rule you want to use.

Exactly what behavior was unacceptable? There seems to be the opinion of some that the very act of slamming the ball to the ground should be punished. Others feel there should be some leeway based upon the game situation.

Let's look at the game situation: Under 1:00, Memphis has the ball and a 2 point lead. Kansas fouls #14 (Douglas-Roberts), #14 for Memphis goes to the line for 2 FT's. #14 misses both FT's, but #2 (Dozier) for Memphis gets the rebound, passes to #23 (Rose), Kansas fouls Rose, and #14 ends up with the ball as his team is granted a TO. #14 then slams the ball to the ground, it bounces in the air to a Kansas player, who then also bounces the ball hard.

Let's recap: Memphis has a 2 point lead, has the ball, has 2 FT's coming up, and has just called a TO. So, why did #14 slam the ball hard? Was it because he was upset with the foul call? Was he showing any disrespect to the officials? Was he taunting the other team? Of course, the answer to these is no; he was simply quite obviously upset with himself for missing those 2 FT's a few moments earlier. So this seems to eliminate the unsporting behavior aspect. The TO had just been granted, so there is no obvious delay in being able to put the ball back in play.

Most of the time when a player slams the ball down, it is in response to getting a foul or violation called on them. That's why the T is called - for the unsporting behavior of the reaction, not the specific act. You will usually see the two happen together, and perhaps that's how people have come to associate the "slam" with the T. However, you will not find "Slam the ball down in a forceful manner" as one of the items listed in Rule 10. There is a subtle difference, and that is why those officials were working that particular game - they know that difference. When I saw the play, my reaction was "Uh, oh...", but as I processed what actually happened, I saw why the officials did not penalize it. The more I think about it, the more I hope I would call it the same way in a high school game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Most of the time when a player slams the ball down, it is in response to getting a foul or violation called on them. That's why the T is called - for the unsporting behavior of the reaction, not the specific act. You will usually see the two happen together, and perhaps that's how people have come to associate the "slam" with the T. However, you will not find "Slam the ball down in a forceful manner" as one of the items listed in Rule 10. There is a subtle difference, and that is why those officials were working that particular game - they know that difference. When I saw the play, my reaction was "Uh, oh...", but as I processed what actually happened, I saw why the officials did not penalize it. The more I think about it, the more I hope I would call it the same way in a high school game.

Well said.
You've also spelled out my thought process through this discussion.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You've also spelled out my thought process through this discussion.

Uh, oh...I'm thinking like you?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Uh, oh...I'm thinking like you?

I'd offer some of Padgett's meds, but he seems to be doing well and I wouldn't want to take any away from him.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'd offer some of Padgett's meds, but he seems to be doing well and I wouldn't want to take any away from him.

I'm always receptive to a cash offer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I'm always receptive to a cash offer.

capitalist

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

The more I think about it, the more I hope I would call it the same way in a high school game.

I can respect your opinion, and judging from the poll on this topic 75% of the officials her agree with you. But I guess my viewpoint differs here because I think a HS player has a different standard of behavior than a D1 player in a nationally televised championship game.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I can respect your opinion, and judging from the poll on this topic 75% of the officials her agree with you. But I guess my viewpoint differs here because I think a HS player has a different standard of behavior than a D1 player in a nationally televised championship game.

It's not about the game venue.

It is about whether or not you judge the act to be an unsporting act. For some of us it clearly was not for the reasons M&M summed up nicely.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I can respect your opinion, and judging from the poll on this topic 75% of the officials her agree with you. But I guess my viewpoint differs here because I think a HS player has a different standard of behavior than a D1 player in a nationally televised championship game.

And I would respectfully submit that you are missing the point. It doesn't matter that it was nationally televised, or that it was a Championship game, or that it was a "big" game, or that it was an NCAA game...what matters is that the player was NOT demonstrating unsportsmanlike behavior. Frustration is not unsportsmanlike - it's oart of any game. If the method of displaying that frustration is unsportsmanlike, then we penalize it. As has been said several times in this thread - the ball slam was NOT in response to a call or no-call, and was not directed at the officials, and was not a taunt directed at the other team, and did not delay the game...there really is no reason to call a T for this - not even at the HS level.

[JRutledge]

We have had this discussion before, but this is the difference between a HS official and an official that works a lot of college. The HS official is trying to prove they need to call something, while the college official is usually trained to be a little more restraint and use a little bit of common sense. That is why you see officials spending a lot of time trying to justify this as a foul.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We have had this discussion before, but this is the difference between a HS official and an official that works a lot of college. The HS official is trying to prove they need to call something, while the college official is usually trained to be a little more restraint and use a little bit of common sense. That is why you see officials spending a lot of time trying to justify this as a foul.

Peace

Yeah. That's it. All us HS guys without any common sense

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Yeah. That's it. All us HS guys without any common sense

I did not say all. But your justification for this is based on a HS principle which you admitted that "In a HS game, I am calling a T." And the funny thing there is not "HS principle. When I read material about officiating, I almost never see, "At the HS level we do this...... and at the college level we do this......."

I know I officiate the same way at the college level as I do at the HS level when the rules and interpretations are exactly the same. The major difference is the players are bigger and faster. But the way I deal with coaches, conduct, and situations is exactly the same.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We have had this discussion before, but this is the difference between a HS official and an official that works a lot of college. The HS official is trying to prove they need to call something, while the college official is usually trained to be a little more restraint and use a little bit of common sense. That is why you see officials spending a lot of time trying to justify this as a foul.

Peace

Jeff, while I wholeheartedly agree with your general principle, I might disagree a little with your wording. I don't think it's strictly a difference between HS and college officials, I think it's a difference between an average official and a great official, no matter the level. There are great HS officials that understand this principle that do not work any college ball. Of course, if you work at the college level, it is probable you already understand these subtle differences.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Jeff, while I wholeheartedly agree with your general principle, I might disagree a little with your wording. I don't think it's strictly a difference between HS and college officials, I think it's a difference between an average official and a great official, no matter the level. There are great HS officials that understand this principle that do not work any college ball. Of course, if you work at the college level, it is probable you already understand these subtle differences.

I agree with the great part of your point of view. But in all the sports I work, college officials go to more camps, attend more training sessions and do more to get better because they have to. I am also talking about all the sports I work where HS officials can quote that rulebook, quote the mechanics book and if you tell them something that is outside of both they cannot function. I would agree that is very simplistic, but I can tell a mile away when someone is surprised by a common philosophy that is used at the college level.

Peace

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Most of the time when a player slams the ball down, it is in response to getting a foul or violation called on them. That's why the T is called - for the unsporting behavior of the reaction, not the specific act.

Very well stated...emphasis added.