UNC/Kansas
 

Sorry to the UNC fans (Tony), but I loved this game! Hansborough just showed what he will do when he gets to the pros - he will probably be measured at 6'7" or something and will get his head handed to him on a regular basis. I didn't realize how bad his defense is for a big man.

On another note, Wayne Ellington has got to be the best shooter with his feet out of whack that I've ever seen. How is feet are set just don't matter to him.

Chant with me....

Over-rated
(clap...clap...clap-clap-clap)

Over-rated
(clap...clap...clap-clap-clap)

http://media.collegepublisher.com/me...s/mc2zrgx7.jpg

:D (sorry, Tony!)

Think Joakim Noah without the bad hair.:D

Well,I'm sureashell not a TarHeel fan, but I disagree completely with you about Hansborough. He reminds me one heckuva lot of Dave Cowens. They said exactly the same thing about Cowens when he came out of Florida State.....too small to play the post, gonna get his head handed to him, etc. Cowens ended up making all of those so-called experts eat crow, big time.

Hansborough has got a big dose of the "wants", unlike about 80% of the pretty boys in the NBE who can't do a damn thing other than dunk the ball. You know, the ones that worry more about styling than playing.

Want is not going to get you on the floor. You need production. If you cannot produce on one or both ends of the court, you will be expendable. I think he will be a pro, but whether he is a productive pro is another story.

Peace

Ha!!! I was thinking the same thing. And I being in Chicago, I see it night after night.

Hmmm...must have been watching a different game than I was. What I saw was that NC was successful when the ball went through Hansbrough's hands...it was UNC's guards that got their butts handed to them.

The big man who got completely outplayed today was Love from UCLA...Dorsey manhandled him. And that dunk that Douglas-Roberts put down in Love's face was spectacular!

I think Hansborough will have a very mediocre career in the NBA. He won't be an inside presence at all against the big, strong pros and he is very weak from the outside.

I'd compare Hansbourgh to Dennis Rodman. They both have the work ethic and the motor, plus Hansbourgh has more offensive skills.

He'll be a fine pro forward.

17 points, 9 boards, 2 assists and 3 to's. I think there are several NBA squads that would take that. Like someone else said, UNC got outplayed at the guard spot. Also, KS was running several big men with fresh legs in there. By all means, I and not jocking Hansboro but don't dis the guy for being good. What will his NBA career be like??? We might have to wait another year. Maybe that's why he has stayed because he already knows. He did draw 4 PC and TC fouls, 2 of which looked like he duped the officials. Also, he's 6'9" which is just fine for PF on the NBA. I think teams would love to have his heart and hope it would be contagious.

I concur, that Hansbrough may be a lot like Cowens.....but, I wouldn't necessarily compare the consistant athleticism and size Cowens had to operate against, versus what Hansbrough is going to see. Overall, I believe they have very similar engines, desire, and heart, and I too like the fact that he's more "blue collar". I don't think he's Dave Cowens though (who also had some darn good teams around him (of course, he made them better too)). Time will tell. JMO

I believe Hansborough will be lucky to measure a full 6'7". You can normally take whatever they're listed at on the college roster and subtract 2-3". He doesn't have much height and only decent length. He's not very athletic (compared to other college power forwards who will play in the league). His mid-range game has gotten better, but he has sub-par handles for a small PF, and his defense is not NBA-ready.

That said, he works hard and has the "want to" that will land him a roster spot for a long time. If he proves to be a consistent, long-term, productive starter for a team, I'll admit my mistake, but I just don't see it.

Hansborough's NBE success is only a matter of time will tell.

I don't see him amounting to a lot, though.

Oh, and I'll add the thing that disappointed me most about him last night (especially since I needed UNC to win for me to win my bracket pool for pride): he was terrible passing out of double-teams. It's the one place he could have made the biggest impact last night, and instead he constantly tried to force the score through doubles rather than finding the open man.

All that said, he was far from the problem for UNC in the first 15 minutes of that game - the guards had no ability to attack Kansas's pressure and create decent offensive opportunities for anyone. It was a purely amazing 15 minutes of basketball by Bill Self's team.

Yes, he does have a lot of desire...but so did Brian Cardinal. To compare him to Dennis Rodman would be an error in my opinion. Rodman was at least athletic to go along with his desire (to rebound the basketball).

Kansas was mildly successful against him because the primary defender stood straight up and a help defender bothered his shot. Some other times they forgot what to do and the primary defender didn't resist the temptation to make contact with him. 90%, at least, of his game depends on the defender making contact. He shot a fewer free throws than he is used to as a result.

I'm not saying he was the reason UNC lost, but he sure didn't look like POY material. Who are the big men for Kansas again? I hope we know enough about basketball to realize he may have won POY, but he is not a Michael Beasley type talent. I've seen this before. When Jamison won POY at UNC I was wondering, "Doesn't everyone realize Vince Carter is a better player?"

Regardless, another year where one of the two teams that routinely get the most talent will not win the championship.

I'd just like to add my 100% agreement with this statement. In fact, I believe it to be quite an understatement, as TH isn't close to being a Michael Beasley type talent.

And while I believe Beasley was far and away the best player in college basketball this year, Derrick Rose is having an outstanding NCAA tournament and deserves any positive praise that comes his way...

POY is the same as the Heisman - it rarely goes to the "best" player in the college game. It usually goes to the player whose school gets the most National coverage and whose school invests a bunch of $$ into a PR campaign.

Does College POY translate into NBA super stardom? You be the judge.....

* 1990 - Lionel Simmons, La Salle * 1991 - Larry Johnson, UNLV
* 1992 - Christian Laettner, Duke * 1994 - Glenn Robinson, Purdue
* 1995 - Joe Smith, Maryland * 1996 - Marcus Camby, Massachusetts
* 1997 - Tim Duncan, Wake Forest * 1998 - Antawn Jamison, NC
* 1999 - Elton Brand, Duke * 2000 - Kenyon Martin, Cincinnati
* 2001 - Shane Battier, Duke * 2002 - Jason Williams, Duke
* 2003 - T. J. Ford, Texas * 2004 - Jameer Nelson, St. Joseph's
* 2005 - Andrew Bogut, Utah * 2006 - J.J. Redick, Duke
* 2007 - Kevin Durant, Texas

PS - five Dukies.....

Please, don't make me pukie. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/puke.gif

Hansborough got owned several times. He got the ball stuffed and stolen more than a couple times. On defense, he didn't do much.
I agree. When the lead was >20 points, there were a hand full of interesting calls....most by the same official. Those enabled UNC to stop the bleeding and start to come back. I was watching the game with a group of officials and none of us could figure out how they came up with the calls he did. It was almost like he wanted to limit how bad UNC got beat by and gave them a couple of gifts. While I can see doing that in the end of a big blowout, halfway through the first half is way to early to shift into that mode.

[edited to reflect that it was actually more than one official but mostly one]

Camron, which official are you talking about.

BTW, you are about to get blasted.

What "mode" is that? and how do you "shift into it?"

Agreed.

Steve Nash is listed at 6'3". I've met Steve Nash. There's no way that he's 6'3".

Say it ain't so! :eek:

Hansbrough is a very good college player, possibly the best that college ball has this year.

As far as the NBA is concerned, disadvantages: he has limited range 15-17 feet, is too small to play with his back to the basket, can't get his shot off or create against longer, faster players, and cannot leap over taller players. Things that will work to his advantage: doesn't need the ball to score, nobody will outwork him. Of course, an 82+ game season will take a significant toll on a player like this.

I also don't think that he is really 6'9" either, so on defense he is definitely going to get posted up alot and be in alot of posters while getting thrown down on.

If by some stretch Hansbrough was to get on a team and start, a stretch of games in the NBA could have him seeing these players:

Garnett
Stoudamire
Nowitski
Gasol
Wallace

I think those guys wouldn't mind taking a night off against Hansbrough.

It was actually two of them but mostly one (I don't know their names)...from somewhere around 6:00 remaining in the first to about 3:00 remaining in the first. There were 2-3 charge calls against KU where the UNC defender was still sliding in after the shooter was airborne. In another there was a little contact and Hansbrough threw himself on the floor for the PC. There was also a fast break with, from every camera angle, no contact as the defender cut under the shooter but a foul was called (and far more contact was being passed on prior to that point). Then there was a block called on KU where the defender had a better position than any of the previous Block/Charges that were called a PC. Just a series of head-scratching calls that were inconsistent with the rest of the game.

(and no, I'm not a KU fan and have never been)

Meh, I'm a huge KU fan, and I thought the officials did a very good job officiating a very tough game (maybe you'd agree, except with the PC/TC fouls? I'm not sure). Lots of contact, and very fast-paced... tough game for sure.

I know the calls you're talking about Camron - I've spent the entire Sunday re-watching the game on tivo. I agree with you about 2 Hansbrough PCs, but for the most part, I thought the KU PCs were right on (the multiple Collins PCs, and one of the Rush's PCs). BTW on the fast break, was that the jeremy case foul? It looked the same to me, till I realized on the undercut he slapped his elbow...

I was impressed the way the refs officiated Hansbrough when he had the ball - he can initiate contact to draw fouls and get to the line better than any college player I've seen this year. That shotput with his right hand and use of the other forearm to step in and draw contact (sometimes initiating it) is so hard to ref, especially the way he moves.

I think the refs called a good travels on him when he was trying to force his way into defenders (could have called more), and they didn't give into the temptation to call fouls even though both teams were turning the ball over so much (on steals/blocks/loose balls, when there was contact, but that didn't serve an advantage).

Only chance Hansbrough has to be a good NBA player is to extend his range and work to become a better defender... one more year could really help him work on that.

I too think they did an overall great job...just that 2-3 minute stretch late in the first that had me scratching my head.

Agreed, may of the were spot on...just the ones in that one segment were interesting. Along with the other calls in that window, it put the brakes on the KU rout.

I don't think that he did...none of the replay I saw showed it nor did the shooter's arm react as if it had been touched. Even if he did barely touch it, it was completely inconsistent with much of the game.

I noticed that he was somewhat frustrated in not getting the calls that he expected when he would try to force his way through the defense.

As for the off forearm play in this game, the defender was sailing in and never had a good position. I didn't think the arm gave Hansbrough any advantage on that one. I agreed with the foul on the defender.

Yep...agreeed.

I don't think he'll ever be a good player at the NBA. He'll play but unless he improves a lot defensively, I can see him getting posterized time and time again....a big liability...and not big enough or a good enough jumper to pull in a lot of rebounds. On the other end, KU's big men really ate him up...how many of his shots were blocked or altered? How many times did he get into a trap and turn the ball over? Almost like he'd not seen any teams with good interior defense...does the ACC not have any good defensive big men?

That would be Tony Greene. I was rooting for KU but I thought all the TC/PC calls against KU in the first half were solid. There was one play where Hansbrough may have leaned slightly at point of contact but he still took solid contact to the torso. And don't forget he was properly called for a block on the sideline in the last minute of the 1st half (by Tone Greene).

KU started playing out of control in the last few minutes of the 1st half. It was their erratic play that allowed UNC to start its comeback.

I am a Carolina fan and I think it's pretty funny that you think Hansborough is 6'7". I agree a lot of the time things are stretched in the programs and player profiles, but to say 6'7". If that's the case then there are no big men in college basketball anymore. You are saying that Kobe B. is taller than Hans...lol.

As far as him in the NBA, he will be fine. Is he going to score 25+ ppg, probably not. Everyone said the same thing about Elton Brand coming out of Duke. He's 6'9" and only a bruiser. Look what he has done. He has added a consistant 17 foot jumper and continues to dominate PF that are bigger and longer. Tyler has the work ethic and will to improve. I think he has shown that throughout his years at UNC. He will be a solid NBA player, probably not an all-star, but solid. The comparison to Joakim Noah is a joke. Noah had only two thing going for him in college.....energy and length. Tyler has more skill, strength and want to than Noah.

I like TH. That said, I think he's closer to 6'7" than 6'9". I'd actually put money on 6'8" in shoes when he's measured for the draft. All you have to do is look at him next to other big guys. It's actually a testament to his desire and work ethic that he was able to put up the numbers he did this year, considering he's undersized.

I think most people are actually frustrated with the excessive media coverage of him - not because he's not good, but because some in the media have made him out to be so much more than he is. He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype.

I think this is funny as can be. You have officials (Camron Rust) bashing, questioning other officials...all but accusing them of helping Carolina get back in the game. You have 15 people saying Tyler isn't a quality post player, yet he is the National POY and if you watch any game he played in this season, yes even the Kansas game, he is double and triple teamed in the post all game long. He is on pace, if he comes back, to become UNC's all time leading scorer. He's scored a ton more than Sean May...who may I remind you is undersized....Listed at 6'8" at UNC....http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/seanmay.asp. I think he is a pretty good NBA player. He has been plagued by injury but in his rookie season he averaged 11ppg. Do you know how many shots May blocked in his 3 season at Carolina?? 95. Do you know his career scoring average....15.8. Tyler has blocked 56...thats a difference of about .3 per game..lol. Oh and scoring, Tyler's career average is 19.8. I think he will be okay.

I think the media has made him out to be what he is. A hard working, skilled, basketball player. He doesn't have the talent of a Beasley or a Mayo, but he'll do things those pretty boys won't. I think if you ask any coach in the country who do you want to start your team....about 80% will say Tyler.

And the vast majority of us don't give a $#!^.
I am laughing about how this thread seems to resemble a fan-forum thread.

"Tyler's the greatest ever. His coach compared him to Jordan."
"No, Tyler's an overrated psycho."
"You're just jealous."
"Shut up."

I haven't seen one person say he isn't a quality post player. In fact, I think he's deserving of his National POY Award. The only thing anyone has said about TH is that he struggled at times in the KU game and that he's undersized and will struggle to be more than a role player in the NBA.

All that said, I think if Hansbrough played for Kansas State and Michael Beasley played for UNC, Beasley would be POY and Hansbrough wouldn't even be mentioned...but that's more commentary on media coverage and probably out of place. :D

I'm not so much accusing them conciously/purposefully of helping UNC back in the game. Its pretty common for officials to shift all close calls to favor a team that is getting pounded...it can be a good practice to manage the game. I'm not saying they did any different. I've done it and I don't know if there is an official who hasn't done it. It was looking like the game was over. However, care has to be taken to not do that too early...especially when the game has impact that this one does. In doing it too early myself, I've seen a team turn it around and threaten to win. Would they have done so without my earlier favorable calls? Maybe, maybe not, but I sure helped them. Now, I wait a little longer before shifting the threshold of the close calls. Would UNC have turned it around without some of those generous calls? Maybe. But they did get the benefit of a few.

I agree with everything you say, Camron, but would add that I think this happens as much sub-conciously as it does conciously for many officials. I thought exactly as you did - that for a period of time in that game several close calls (none of them were atrociously bad at all, IMO) all went in UNC's favor.

That said, KU did themselves no favors at the end of the first half and just played pretty stupidly at times, doing a whole lot more to let UNC back in the game than any of those close calls did.

It was a fan-forum thread from the git-go. WOBW.

And wow, we as officials are all wrong. We thought that when idiot coaches yell at us about cheating their team, that they knew nothing about the game. According to Mr. Rust he makes practice of awarding the team that is behind with close calls. YIKES!!! I often officiate some youth league games, so to say that I have never done this would be lying. Last week, youth tournament, 4-5th grade girls...team down 32-6...I point the same direction on every held ball and every close out of bounds play. I think everyone understood. To do this at the varsity level or in this case the Elite 8 is IGNORANT!!! I doubt that there was one person in that building or in front of the TV that didn't think Carolina would make a run. They had the highest scoring offense in the country.

On one hand you want to say it's okay to do what you think the officials did (which was slant calls in Carolina's favor) and in the next breathe say I think I would have waited a little longer (lol...40-12) and then hold the officials accountable for the score "being close." Thats NUTS!!

I suggest you watch more games then. While some here may not want to admit it, it happens at all levels....but usually only in the last 3-5 minutes of a blowout. I absolutely give any benefit of doubt in late game calls to a team that is getting crushed...even in varsity game. I'm not talking about seeing things only in favor of one team. I'm not talking about flipping every AP possessoin or obvious OOB calls as you suggest in kids games, but close calls....a bang-bang block/charge, OOB calls with both sets of hands in the mix. One team thinks they're getting the short end of the stick, no need to shorten it further. Manage the game and get it over with while doing things to keep the involved parties from losing their heads.

There are calls that are right only if at the right time. We make or don't make calls all the time based on the situation. There are calls that might be "right" that are wrong for the game. There are calls that are "wrong" that are right for the game. If it were a 28 point game with 4 minutes to go in the 2nd, the calls would not have even elicited a comment from me....I would have expected it. With teams capable of covering the deficit, you don't do it.

If you think that, then that's you're problem. I haven't read or heard anyone say that. There's no hype regarding his work ethic. You simply have no idea WTF you're talking about.

:D

I actually have heard that, from his coach. He compared his focus and intensity to Michael Jordan's.

Here's what I could find on the fly:
The quote I heard from Williams actually mentioned Jordan directly.

Where did jdw, or whatever the hell his name, is comment about anything Coach Williams said? He wrote, "I think most people are actually frustrated with the excessive media coverage of him - not because he's not good, but because some in the media have made him out to be so much more than he is. He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype."

Even though coaches will always brag on their kids, I would expect Coach Williams to know more about Hansbrough than jdw. Even I know that Jordan is one of the most competitive players to ever play the game. But I also know he did not work as hard in college as Hansbrough does. Michael's talent was much more God given. Tyler has had to work harder for his.

All this stuff about Hansbrough and the NBA is bu11$hit. Even NBA scouts don't agree on how effective he will be. To illustrate, how many D-1 coaches passed Stephen Curry?

Wow, pretty fired up BktBallRef. All I was saying is that the media coverage has been excessive in covering his work ethic and desire. I said earlier, I really like Hansbrough, believe he deserved POY honors, and enjoy watching him play.

But, if you don't believe his "work ethic" and "want-to" have been hiped to an extreme, I guess we've been watching different TV. I think it's what makes his critics more passionate than they would be otherwise.

The people who are running their mouths aren't critics, they're ABC'ers. That's why they're critical of him.

Curry was all but begging to go to Virginia Tech and Greenburg didn't want him.

This is where I will agree and disagree. Tyler's work ethic has been broadcast a lot. Now, your a smart guy. Let's think about how many excellent players that Coach Williams has coached...a bunch. I don't think he is going to make up things about Tyler's work ethic that are not true. He had a kid on the 05 team, Rashad McCants, that was one of the most talented offensive players to play at UNC and you didn't hear Roy say anything about him, other than he didn't apply himself enough. You don't hear Beasley coach talking about his work ethic. Beasley has talent..a trait that will take him a long way...but until he learns to develop that work ethic he will be no more than a middle of the road NBA player. The point I'm making about Tyler is that his work ethic, as commented on by Pitino, is like few that have ever played the game. That alone will lead to a productive career and big bucks. I heard a comment from Roy that last year when he set his career high in scoring (i think agains GT), it was a Friday or Saturday game in which he scored 42 points, that Tyler was up and in the gym by 7am by himself and worked on his game for about 2 hrs.

I'm not sure I should wade back into this thread, but I will to say two things: one, I think Hansbrough obviously has an incredible work ethic and drive. Absolutely agree. Is it the best the game has ever seen? Doubt it, but that doesn't mean he doesn't work really hard. Are there other guys out there up at 7 am in the gym on game day? Yes. Are there other, lesser-talented guys that work really hard and hustle like Tyler? I think probably so.

That said, he's done great things this year and deserves his awards. My only comment is that the extreme level of coverage of his "desire" and "heart" and "hustle" have created a bit of a backlash among basketball fans who don't think his POY Awards were a slam dunk.

As for the quote I highlighted above, Frank Martin has commented many, many times in the media this year that Michael Beasley has a terrific work ethic and comes to practice every day to compete. So, your statement is completely untrue.

I get it.

1) Just because somebody says something, that <b>doesn't</b> make it true.
2) Just because somebody says something, that <b>does</b> make it true.

Interesting argument you're making to support <b>your</b> POV......

Just saying.......

Can you represent me in court if needed?:D

Did you just call me a <b>lawyer</b>?:eek:

Dem's fightin' words! :mad:

:D

You couldn't be further from the truth. Nate said:

I was simply responding that yes, in fact, Beasley's coach does talk about his work ethic, and in a positive way at that.

Doesn't make the coach's statement true or false, but it certainly makes Nate's statement false.

Would I try to make the arguement that Beasley works as hard as Hansbrough? Nope. But he may. He didn't get as good as he is by accident, so he's obviously worked hard on his game.

Two things. First, Hansborogh's career high game came on a Saturday night. He was in the gym at 7am the next morning, by himself, like I said already. That's dedication. Are there others who work as hard as Tyler?? Probably a few, but I'd say that most that work as hard as he does aren't A) as talented B) in college. You don't find many that are as good as he is, that work as hard as he does.

As for Beasley, I'm sure he does exactly like Coach Martin says....he shows up and works really hard IN PRACTICE. There are several thousand kids that do this. I can go to my local Division III college and see a bunch of kids working their asses off in practice. I don't think that's what Pitino, Williams, or anyone else is referring to.

Obviously Beasley has worked on his game. When did that become the question?? I'd say there's probabaly a really good reason that Beasley ended up at K-State and not Kansas, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA, Memphis, ...the traditional powers.

Yes, there is a good reason: his AAU coach was hired as an assistant at Charlotte, and Beasley committed to Charlotte. Then his AAU coach was hired away from Charlotte by Kansas State, and Beasley committed (and signed) with Kansas State.

Suggesting that KU, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA and Memphis wouldn't have wanted Beasley is ridiculous.

UHhh.....eerr........I meant on the court.....yeh, that's it

Winning must not have played a factor in his decision. I'm sure that's not all there is to it.

Believe what you want. He calls the coach his brother, they are so close. He played for him for years before he was hired by Charlotte, and then Beasley said he wanted to play for him in college.

This has officially descended into fan-boy territory for me, so I should probably stop, but Beasley has by all accounts at K-State been an excellent person, a great teammate, and a very good student. I happen to believe he was also the best individual performer in college basketball this year, but that's certainly not all there is to the POY Award, which is why I think Hansbrough is a very deserving recipient.

There are a lot of great "college" players who don't end up at those schools. Chris Bosh went to Georgia Tech and Chris Paul went to Wake Forest. You saying those 2 players didn't go to the "traditional" powers because they didn't work hard? Gonzaga has produced 3 players (Stockton, Nash, Morrison) who are considered hard workers. Why didn't they go to UNLV or UCLA, because of their work ethics??

And Memphis is not a traditional power (just to quibble), they are a power every 10 years of so. Beasley going to K-State is akin to Penny Hardaway going to Memphis St.

Not that it really detracts from your point, but Nash didn't go to Gonzaga. He went to Santa Clara.

I think Beasley is a great talent. I've officiated him several times, seen how he interacts with his teammates and know about his situation in high school.

Uh...there is no way he would have ever went to any of those other schools. Let's just say the only way I would believe it is if I was in the room when he took the SAT. Also, his going to K-state did have a lot to do with the assistant coach.

I don't understand this statement, tomegun. K-State's admission standards are equal to KU's, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

I think he's implying that Beasley's taking of the SAT was a team effort.

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

Jw..I didn't want to say it, but know I don't have to. I've seen lots of players really admire their former coaches and not follow them off to college. I don't think talent was the issue here, nor was work ethic. Guys that talented don't have to work extremely hard. However, graduation rates do mean a little more at KU, UK, UNC, Duke, etc...

Ever hear of Rolando Blackman, Bob Boozer, Mitch Richmond? Tradition didn't start 10 years ago. Kansas State has a rich history of basketball
.

This does indeed show your age. And this is firmly in fan-boy territory for me, so I'll admit that up front.

I'll concede no national titles for K-State, and won't attempt to stand the program up against UNC or KU or Indiana or UCLA. That would be foolish.

But four Final Fours, 12 Elite Eight appearances, and 16 Sweet 16s, is pretty formidable. The last 20 years have not been kind to Kansas State. But at the end of the regular season in 1988, Kansas State's "history" was pretty much equal to KU's in terms of conference championships, final fours, NCAA tourney appearances, etc, short of KU at that time having one national title. Obviously, KU went on an incredible run over the last 20 years, while K-State slipped into irrelevance.

In 2005, Street and Smith put out its Top 100 Basketball Programs list. Kansas State was 22nd. Hardly an "also-ran". One spot behind Georgetown, one spot ahead of Texas. It's a subjective list, and you can argue with it, but the idea that "no one" would list K-State in with Georgia Tech (64th) and Wake Forest (46th)? False, again.

I won't try to argue that Beasley was a model student and person all through his high school years. He wasn't. But he has been in his time at K-State, and most of those programs you listed would have taken him in a heartbeat if he'd shown any interest.

Oh, and fullor, thanks for the backup on Richmond, Boozer and Blackmond. I'd also add great coaches like Tex Winter, Jack Gardner, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and Jack Hartman.

Oh, and aside from my being a fan of Kansas State, I really don't enjoy when people make assumptions about a person's intelligence or academics without knowing anything.

Beasley will leave for the NBA this year, but he'll do so in very good academic standing. And Kansas State's compliance with the NCAA in the area of academics is outstanding.

While not up there with UCLA, Duke, NC, etc. IMHO they have a more storied history than Memphis.

I have no horse in this race and don't follow either team.

Street and Smith agreed with you as well, with Memphis at 61.

My age, I bet you couldn't guess my age within 10 years. That aside. History is great, I love it and actually teach it. My take is simple: Kansas St. is a great school. They have had several elite basketball teams and players. Richmond was there in '88, Boozer in 58-59, Blackman in 1980. I hardly think this puts them in college basketballs royalty. Definetly not a powerhouse. Heck, Davidson has had some greats too. Three All-Americans which included Fred Hetzel (twice), Dick Synder, and Mike Maloy (twice) and John Gerdy. This season Curry. Does this make them royalty or a place where the top players in the country want to go. I hardly think so. And if you want to talk coaches, Davidson had one of the best all time in Lefty.

I'm glad that we can finally agree that Beasley isn't exactly a model citizen or at least wan't. I think its a little easier to straight up when you know that your every move is being watched by NBA scouts. I hope he does well and I'm sure he will.

Duuuhhh....at least they're in the same conference. :o

And Nate, you've totally meandered away from you main point, which was work ethic towards basketball. You implied the reason Beasley didn't go to a "traditional" power was he work ethic. Now you switch mid-stream and talk about academics. Two totally differently subjects.

You've been eating too much pulled pork down your way if you think GT and WF are 'powerhouses'.

For that I don't need a 'disertation'

As much a powerhouse as K-State or Gonzaga.

Acutally my point was that their aren't many that work as hard as Hans. Beasley is a tremendous TALENT. JW made the initial comment that Tyler's work ethic was over-hyped. I just stated that I don't think so. Then we move to Beasley's working hard in PRACTICE, something ALL players do. Beasley has a history. I'm chosing not to go into it however. The assistant coach isn't the only reason he ended up at K-State. Some school have higher standards than others. Case in point is UNC...the guard a few year ago...Jameson Curry. Anyway, he is the all time leading scorer in North Carolina high school history. Roy signed him, 2 months later he was caught with marijuana at school and he land at Oklahoma St. Duke never attempted to recuit him.

I'm not making an assumption about him - I know about him. I knew his story and officiated him more than likely before you ever heard of him. Do you even know where he went to school his "junior" year in high school? Do you know why I put junior in quotes?

That doesn't mean he is a bad person or not a great basketball player.

He doesn't even know what an ABCer is! :D

K State and Gonzaga are not powerhouses, so I'll agree with your above statement. Therefore GTand WF aren't either.

Yeah, I know all about his "high school" history. It's certainly not something I'd shine a bright light on if it were my past. :D

That said, attending several different "basketball factories" and getting himself into some trouble with school authorities says little about his ability or inability to score a qualifying score on the SAT or ACT.

I know several of his instructors at K-State, and they have all said that they were very surprised how engaged and intelligent he was in class. So he has a few people who were skeptical who now have no reason to doubt that he could have scored a qualifying score on his own.

I've no idea how this got so completely off topic, but it's been fun!

BTW...sorry I was slow in putting it together. It occured to me what an ABCer was in the middle of the night the other night, and that definitely doesn't describe me or apply to any of the arguements I've made in this thread.

Hell, I like UNC!

The trouble he has had in the past couldn't be a reason he ended up at K-state then huh? My guess is that if he'd had a ball in his hands and on the court somewhere he would never have had any trouble to begin with. Seems as tho the one's who are the most athletically gifted never want to work as hard.

I'm not going to try and convince you of anything else, Nate, it's obvious you don't want to believe that Beasley's relationship with Dalonte Hill was tight enough to be the deciding factor in where Beasley attended school, and it's also obvious that regardless of how hard Beasley actually works in and out of practice, you will regard him as someone who "never wants to work as hard."

I'd just encourage you to lose the attitude that is so apparent in your posts that when a player chooses to attend a school other than UNC or Duke or KU or UCLA that it must be because that player wasn't actually recruited by those schools, rather than that player simply deciding he wanted to go somewhere else instead - for whatever reason.

Recruiting is a strange deal. Sometimes the best players don't want to attend a traditional power school. "Aw shucks" Roy isn't the right coach for everyone. Every once in a while, a school you wouldn't suspect makes the right connection with a super-talented kid and UNC loses out on a recruit they wanted.

Jdw, I understand the recuiting process well. I'm actually very involved in that process right now. I'm an used-to-be official, turned coach. I'd encourage you to open your eyes and understand that theirs a lot more that MOST coaches look at other than talent. I can't say this for fact, but I'd bet money that that the first thing that "the powerhouses" saw or thought when they heard the name Beasley were....1)High School trouble..to the point of jumping around to different school to play ball. 2)Big risk--when's the last time you heard of any problem kids on the list you provided above...there's a reason...they don't pursue these types. I do agree that some kids want to go to other schools; however not usually the Beasley types, that is the super talented ones. Some kids fall through the cracks, Stephen Curry. The knock on him was that he was too small (height and strength). Looks who's laughing now. Just like someone said at the beginning of this thread, he all but begged VT to give him some help. They didn't and he fell to Davidson. I'd hardly call VT a powerhouse...lol. 3)The point you don't want to admit, the intelligence level. Beasley clearly fits the MO. This is not the type of kid they want. Everyone under the sun including the K-State coach knew he was "one and done." Keep him outta trouble for one year, gain some pub for the school. Heck, they will likely produce the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft. Not many schools can say that. ....LOL...not sure they will in 5 years.

Finally.....

Finally someone cuts through the bullsh!t and tells it the way that it is. The universities rent these kids for a year. And if you don't think that the word "rent" is appropriate, then you're a heckuva lot more naive than I think you are. The universities provide a stage for the kid to hone his talent a little while showing it off to future employers. The player provides the basketball-playing acumen to justify his rental. Both sides win. Anyone that thinks that actual academics play any kind of role in this process is a complete doofus imo.

T'is the system.

Only in The Magical And Mythical Land Of College And Above.........and even there it doesn't apply until the fourth year.

We are not worthy......
http://deephousepage.com/smilies/respect.gif

I know that it is only a dream, but I can still hope and pray that some day I will attain your wisdom and knowledge.

This may be the most valuable contribution you've made to the community since you've joined us.

Keep up the good work... now just try & apply it to officiating basketbal.

Exceptions ??? Few, If Any ...
 

This is probably true for the 99.9% of the "one and done" "student" athletes.

But who would have thought that a future first round draft pick of the Charlotte Bobcats would both prepare his talents for the NBA, as well as preparing his academic credentials for a life after basketball:

Emeka Okafor, the son of Nigerian immigrants, is known for not only being a good basketball player but also for being an elite student. His major at UConn was finance, and he graduated with honors after three years in May 2004 with a 3.8 GPA. One of his last courses at UConn was an honors-level finance course where students were allowed to make investment decisions for a small portion of UConn's endowment. Okafor was named the Academic All-American of the Year in 2004 for his work on and off the court.

There are some young men out there who take full advantage of the opportunities that a college scholarship offers to them. How many are in the "one and done" category, few, probably not any, but maybe one, or two, have the maturity, probably taught to them by their parents, to take advantage of one free year of academics, as well as a prep year for the NBA?

Billy, I was only talking about the "one and done" athletes. No one else. Btw, I can't call 'em "students" without laughing.

From his posts to date, I'm not convinced that he really is a basketball official.

And just b/c a player is "one-and-done" and/or a poor student doesn't mean he doesn't bust his a$$ in practice or on his own.

It may have more to do with a preponderance of junior colleges in SOCAL than anything else.

Just sayin'.

How many years did you personally officiate before you made D1 ball?

Who the hell is Larry? :confused:

Cool, another Hillary voter.

Must be tough running from the locker room to the gym floor dodging that sniper fire.

Next time I post something stupid, make an error, or you guys decide to jump on my a$$ (which happens occasionally), I'm gonna use this. Thanks Socal! Brilliant!! Count me in too! ;)

Wow, that was the least charitable of the options I considered in trying to explain your posts.

For example, your spelling of "inaccurate"? I guess it worked. ;) Misspelling "inaccurate" is about as funny as misspelling "misspelling".

I notice that you didn't say "a plethora of GOOD officials."

Just saying...

Aren't you a D1 official? Or is there some compelling reason for not saying?

Actually, I'm assuming that you're a fairly new official that (a) isn't very rules knowledgeable but tries to cover it up with a pile of bafflegab (b) might do a few JC or D3 games solely because of availability for the plethora of games, and (3) hasn't attained a solid high school varsity schedule yet-one where he get state playoff games assigned.

I'd bet that my prediction is closer than what you claim. :)