What Makes A Good Ref - by Steve Lavin

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I saw it and he was fair about it...He made one comment that he didn't just want a guy who studied the rule book, he'd like to have a guy who played in at least HS and understood the game...

His list had some things like: (Hope I'm not confusing it with something else I saw)

Understanding and application of the rule
Conditioning
Confidence to make the call
Communication/Approachability

I also thought it was fine. Lavin has every right to his opinions, and everyone should listen to them, whether they agree 100% or not. Guys like him are the decision-makers.

With respect to Gottlieb and other folks, remember that criticism generates viewers and $$$ for the networks. It's easy for him to pick out mistakes and rant about them. Not too tough. Easy way to fill time. Also, for every criticism you hear on the highlight shows, you'll hear a broadcatser watch a replay and admit the official got it right, despite originally questioning the call. They're not all bad. Controversy makes money for them. Just like reality TV.

Officials make mistakes. Life goes on. Coaches, players, and officials have to deal with the opinions of the public.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I also thought it was fine. Lavin has every right to his opinions,

time for the non-sequiter

Originally Posted by TheOracle

and everyone should listen to them, whether they agree 100% or not.

Just because someone has a right to his opinion doesn't mean I should listen to it. I have a right not to listen, and I have a right to think he's an idiot.

[JoeTheRef]

I didn't have much a problem with Lavin's take, but Gottlieb is an idiot, period. And his point that only someone that played at least at the high school level can make a good official is asinine.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

time for the non-sequiterJust because someone has a right to his opinion doesn't mean I should listen to it. I have a right not to listen, and I have a right to think he's an idiot.

Darn you, Snaqs! What good is the 'ignore' feature if you're going to quote the guy?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Darn you, Snaqs! What good is the 'ignore' feature if you're going to quote the guy?

You could ignore Rocky. I think it's working for Dan.

ps: sorry

[just another ref]

There are two users named TheOracle, and both are logged in now. This is like something from a scary movie.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There are two users named TheOracle, and both are logged in now. This is like something from a scary movie.

I thought my dog was acting funny, now I know why....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I also thought it was fine. Lavin has every right to his opinions, and everyone should listen to them, whether they agree 100% or not. Guys like him are the decision-makers.

With respect to Gottlieb and other folks, remember that criticism generates viewers and $$$ for the networks. It's easy for him to pick out mistakes and rant about them. Not too tough. Easy way to fill time. Also, for every criticism you hear on the highlight shows, you'll hear a broadcatser watch a replay and admit the official got it right, despite originally questioning the call. They're not all bad. Controversy makes money for them. Just like reality TV.

Officials make mistakes. Life goes on. Coaches, players, and officials have to deal with the opinions of the public.

These guys are not qualified to tell officials what they need to do to get better. Just like I am not qualified to tell what makes a good coach from an X's and O's standpoint or whether they know how to motivate their players or not.

And often when issues of controversy come up, these guys do not know the rules they are complaining about. For example the Georgetown-Villanova game and the call that was made near the end of the game. And these guys did not know anything about the Precision Timing System or how it worked when the Tennessee-Rutgers Women’s game had that ending with the clock stopping. They know little or nothing about officiating and that is why we have problems with many of their takes. That does not mean they do not have the right to give their opinions. They are going to give them one way or another that is what they are paid to do. But that does not mean that we have to accept their crap no matter how silly it sounds.

Peace

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

These guys are not qualified to tell officials what they need to do to get better. Just like I am not qualified to tell what makes a good coach from an X's and O's standpoint or whether they know how to motivate their players or not. But that does not mean that we have to accept their crap no matter how silly it sounds.

Peace

I hear you, but I think you are qualified to know whether a coach is doing a good job or not based on how many games and teams you get to see every year. Lots of conversations in the locker rooms that I am in are about what schools are doing well on the court and recruiting, and which aren't. I guess I have seen some blatant mistakes the past week on television. Arizona State is sitting home right now because of a blown call, and the official apologized for his mistake. Tough stuff. All games are performed on a stage, and everyone involved has to have some thick skin. Coaches, players, and referees. I also think you can learn something from any point of view. By profession, I'm trained to see the other side of things, and know that both sides always have at least some merit. I rarely dismiss anything as 100% wrong.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Lots of conversations in the locker rooms that I am in are about what schools are doing well on the court and recruiting, and which aren't.

Is this during gym class?

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I rarely dismiss anything as 100% wrong.

I do. Case in point.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I Arizona State is sitting home right now because of a blown call, and the official apologized for his mistake.

Oh my God!! ASU is sitting home right now because they are a .500 team who played such tremendous non-conference teams as Grand Canyon and Idaho. They had zero wins against any decent teams outside of the Pac-10, and split with most of those teams. They had what, 32 games to prove they belonged in the tournament and didn't get it done...and you want to blame it all on one blown call?? Infreakingcredible.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Oh my God!! ASU is sitting home right now because they are a .500 team who played such tremendous non-conference teams as Grand Canyon and Idaho. They had zero wins against any decent teams outside of the Pac-10, and split with most of those teams. They had what, 32 games to prove they belonged in the tournament and didn't get it done...and you want to blame it all on one blown call?? Infreakingcredible.

Rocky, you left this out:

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Oh my God!! ASU is sitting home right now because they are a .500 team who played such tremendous non-conference teams as Grand Canyon and Idaho. They had zero wins against any decent teams outside of the Pac-10, and split with most of those teams. They had what, 32 games to prove they belonged in the tournament and didn't get it done...and you want to blame it all on one blown call?? Infreakingcredible.

I think if they won that game, they'd be in, and the University of Oregon would be home. A case can be made for ASU being in anyway, but as you state, there is a case for them to be home, too. We'll see what happens to that official's career going forward. He is very good, and it will be unfair, but I bet it trends quickly downward. It also feeds guys like Gottlieb.

Disclaimer: I want to see Harden and Pendergraph playing in the NCAA.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I think if they won that game, they'd be in, and the University of Oregon would be home. A case can be made for ASU being in anyway, but as you state, there is a case for them to be home, too. We'll see what happens to that official's career going forward. He is very good, and it will be unfair, but I bet it trends quickly downward. It also feeds guys like Gottlieb.

Disclaimer: I want to see Harden and Pendergraph playing in the NCAA.

And if ASU won the Pac-10 Tournament, they would be in too. They did not do that, so too bad.

Peace

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Oh my God!! ASU is sitting home right now because they are a .500 team who played such tremendous non-conference teams as Grand Canyon and Idaho. They had zero wins against any decent teams outside of the Pac-10, and split with most of those teams. They had what, 32 games to prove they belonged in the tournament and didn't get it done...and you want to blame it all on one blown call?? Infreakingcredible.

What I just said to Snaqs.