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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 04:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefftuck
The NFHS rule book says that if a ball is batted into the air during a dribble, it must hit the hit the floor before being touched again. However, if a dribbler presses the ball toward the floor, releases that hand, then touches with the other hand before it hits the floor, is that illegal? If the dribbler bats the ball sideways, then presses with the other hand toward the floor? If the dribbler bats the ball at a 45 degree angle downward toward the floor and his other hand, then dribbles with the other hand before it hits the floor? In none of these cases, did he ever touch with two hands simultaneously. But what gets me is does "batted into the air" imply that the ball gets batted upward?
Jeff, the easiest way to figure all of these out is just to get into the definitions in the rules.

By definition, a dribble starts when the ball is batted or pushed to the floor(R4-15-1). Anything that happens after that is during a dribble, and the applicable rules are valid until the dribble has ended. The rule that you're now referring to--rule 4-15-2- is a little hazy because of the "bat" terminology that is used. If it's not 100% clear, that's when you get out the ol' case book to see if that'll help. Voila!. Casebook play 4.15.4SitDCOMMENT gives you your answer when it states definitively that it's a violation to touch the ball twice during a dribble before the ball touches the floor again. That should answer all of your questions above.

Sound OK?
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 05:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Jeff, the easiest way to figure all of these out is just to get into the definitions in the rules.

By definition, a dribble starts when the ball is batted or pushed to the floor(R4-15-1). Anything that happens after that is during a dribble, and the applicable rules are valid until the dribble has ended. The rule that you're now referring to--rule 4-15-2- is a little hazy because of the "bat" terminology that is used. If it's not 100% clear, that's when you get out the ol' case book to see if that'll help. Voila!. Casebook play 4.15.4SitDCOMMENT gives you your answer when it states definitively that it's a violation to touch the ball twice during a dribble before the ball touches the floor again. That should answer all of your questions above.

Sound OK?
Yes, but that case specifically says that the ball is batted up into the air over an opponent. Then, in the discussion of the case, it says that it is illegal to touch the ball twice. Now, can you look at the answer or discussion and completely ignore the case that it was answering. Clearly, if the ball is batted up over an opponent, it is illegal to touch it again before it hits the floor. I'm not sure you can take the answer to this case and say that regardless of what the original question is, this answer says you can never touch it twice before it hits the floor (during a dribble).

JT
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefftuck
Yes, but that case specifically says that the ball is batted up into the air over an opponent. Then, in the discussion of the case, it says that it is illegal to touch the ball twice. Now, can you look at the answer or discussion and completely ignore the case that it was answering. Clearly, if the ball is batted up over an opponent, it is illegal to touch it again before it hits the floor. I'm not sure you can take the answer to this case and say that regardless of what the original question is, this answer says you can never touch it twice before it hits the floor (during a dribble).
Well, I tried.....

My advice is to take it to your association/state interpreter. Maybe you'll believe them.
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 06:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Well, I tried.....

My advice is to take it to your association/state interpreter. Maybe you'll believe them.
You should stick to being the in your face take no hostages evil prick. It suits you better.

More entertaining too.
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 06:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
You should stick to being the in your face take no hostages evil prick. It suits you better.

More entertaining too.
Yeah, I guess. Why try to be something you're aren't?

Btw, shut up.
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Yeah, I guess. Why try to be something you're aren't?
Yeah. And while we're talking about giving up, glad to see you've given up on the English language.
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 07:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
You should stick to being the in your face take no hostages evil prick. It suits you better.

More entertaining too.
He sent his super villian/evil genius costume to the dry cleaners, and they lost it!

The whole in your face thing just doesn't play if he's not wearing the cape and the shiny knee-high boots.
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 07:22pm
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In his defense, other than the above mentioned case play, how can we tell it is a violation to touch the ball with one hand followed by the other before it hits the floor? This play deals specifically with batting the ball over the head of the opponent. I understand his confusion.
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Old Wed Feb 27, 2008, 08:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
In his defense, other than the above mentioned case play, how can we tell it is a violation to touch the ball with one hand followed by the other before it hits the floor? This play deals specifically with batting the ball over the head of the opponent. I understand his confusion.
What part makes it confusing? Is it the part where the ball goes over the head of an opponent? Would the same action be legal if there was no opponent standing there?
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Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 09:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
In his defense, other than the above mentioned case play, how can we tell it is a violation to touch the ball with one hand followed by the other before it hits the floor? This play deals specifically with batting the ball over the head of the opponent. I understand his confusion.
The case play deals with batting the ball over the head of the opponent, but the ruling SPECIFICALLY states the violation.... Violation in (a) because the ball was touched twice by A1's hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor (period).
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