carrying and traveling

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In his defense, other than the above mentioned case play, how can we tell it is a violation to touch the ball with one hand followed by the other before it hits the floor? This play deals specifically with batting the ball over the head of the opponent. I understand his confusion.

What part makes it confusing? Is it the part where the ball goes over the head of an opponent? Would the same action be legal if there was no opponent standing there?

[BillyMac]

Palming or carrying is when a player gains an advantage when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

What part makes it confusing? Is it the part where the ball goes over the head of an opponent? Would the same action be legal if there was no opponent standing there?

Why is this not a part of 9-5-3? Does it say in either book that the second touch is a violation other than the references to batting the ball in the air or over the opponent's head?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Why is this not a part of 9-5-3? Does it say in either book that the second touch is a violation other than the references to batting the ball in the air or over the opponent's head?

I don't think so. But it does say it there, right?

Perhaps they put the reference in the definitions because they felt it had to do with what you can and cannot do during a dribble.

At least they didn't put it in Rule 1 - Court and Equipment, right?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yeah, I guess. Why try to be something you're aren't?

Yeah. And while we're talking about giving up, glad to see you've given up on the English language.

[mick]

Originally Posted by jefftuck

Right. I was imprecise in my language. I meant you couldn't carry or hold the ball. Tapping or batting the ball doesn't necessarily stop a dribble.

BTW, I'm curious about the answers to the section question. The NFHS rule book says that if a ball is batted into the air during a dribble, it must hit the hit the floor before being touched again.

• However, if a dribbler presses the ball toward the floor, releases that hand, then touches with the other hand before it hits the floor, is that illegal?
• If the dribbler bats the ball sideways, then presses with the other hand toward the floor?
• If the dribbler bats the ball at a 45 degree angle downward toward the floor and his other hand, then dribbles with the other hand before it hits the floor?

In none of these cases, did he ever touch with two hands simultaneously. But what gets me is does "batted into the air" imply that the ball gets batted upward?

I ask because this came up in a game recently.

JT

JT,
After the start of a dribble, these acts are illegal.
But to start a dribble, pending restricted foot movement, these acts are probably legal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

Working a GV regional the other evening at another's district's school. The "R" is from home team's association. The visiting team is from my association. Visiting HC complains to crew chief looking for a travel.

HC: "she travelled when she was dribbling"
R: "well, if she was dribbling how could she travel?"
HC: (flustered) "That's not what I meant!"

Crew chief said she was lending a sympathetic ear until that exchange. I could only laugh. In the same game this HC tells the U2 (from my assoc.) that he needs to let the girls play. Then 3 or 4 plays later I'm in front of the HC and he starts complaining for me not to "swallow my whistle".

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In his defense, other than the above mentioned case play, how can we tell it is a violation to touch the ball with one hand followed by the other before it hits the floor? This play deals specifically with batting the ball over the head of the opponent. I understand his confusion.

The case play deals with batting the ball over the head of the opponent, but the ruling SPECIFICALLY states the violation.... Violation in (a) because the ball was touched twice by A1's hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor (period).