Big Sky Suspends 3 Men's Officials

[M&M Guy]

Gimlet25id - let's look at my example play again. You agree that you are granting the TO before the violation, even though there was some unusual reason you didn't get the whistle blown in time. If the ball only becomes dead on your whistle, you would have to not allow the request. Period. Case play 5.8.3 SIT. D tells us the TO request by an airborne player with control is granted, but nowhere is the stipulation that it is granted only if the whistle is blown in time.

Let's look again at 5-8: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
Art. 1 Signals:
a. A foul
b. A held ball
c. a violation

What's missing? d. A time-out. That's not mentioned until Art. 3: Grants a...request for time-out. That tells me that the "granting" is different than the "signal". Yes, when we grant the TO, we blow the whistle to tell the timer to stop the clock. But the signal to stop the clock is a separate event. The same theory with fouls and violations - the whistle doesn't cause the ball to become dead, the foul does. Even case play 10.1.6 tells us a foul should still be penalized even though the whistle didn't blow in time.

Now, does that case play apply to TO requests and grantings? Debatable (which we're obviously doing ). But in the OP, it is an excessive TO request, which is a technical foul. Therefore, that case play applies directly to this sitch.

So, first, do we try to ignore an excessive request? 5-12-2 gives us that answer: "Time-outs in excess of the allotted number may be requested and shall be granted...at the expense of a technical foul." Not maybe, perhaps, or possibly, but definitely. So, we have to acknowledge and grant any excessive TO requests, no matter when they occur.

Now that puts us at the end of the period/game. Why would it be treated any differently than a foul at the end of a period or game? We need to know if the foul/TO granting happened before the end of the period. If not, there is no legal request, therefore we ignore it. If so, we need to have definite knowledge if there's any time to be put back on the clock. But we cannot simply ignore the request because we know it would be excessive.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by zebraman

It did last year. I don't have statistics to track past years.

We all have our opinions on who is best. The assignors hire who they think will do the best job for them. Those who don't get hired often have excuses.

Speaking of Big Sky Camp, I was thinking of attending and would need to register quickly. Does anyone have some insight to the conference and the camp that could help me with an attendance decision????

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Can a moderator delete/alter Chess Ref's post above?

Oh well...

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I still see some hiring done on good ole boyism, gender, race, looks, etc.

Can you tell me how you think race is reflected in the current college basketball hiring process?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Oh well...Can you tell me how you think race is reflected in the current college basketball hiring process?

I am not an NCAA official, nor have I ever considered being one. That said, some officials that I know who work NCAAM Division I ball, or some who want to work NCAAM Division I ball, tell me, their words, not mine, that the NCAA is looking for young, athletic looking, black, men to work their NCAA Division I men's games. Is there discrimination based on age, appearance, race, or sex? I don't know. I hope not. I'm just reporting what we're hearing in my part, and on my level, of the officiating woods.

[Gimlet25id]

M&M...What a discussion!!! Lets just agree to disagree...I just don't think that the rule book will allow you to go back and penalize a excessive T/O request made before the final horn, after the horn went off, either with/without a whistle after the horn.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

M&M...What a discussion!!! Lets just agree to disagree...I just don't think that the rule book will allow you to go back and penalize a excessive T/O request made before the final horn, after the horn went off, either with/without a whistle after the horn.

Apparently the Big Sky disagrees with you.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Can you tell me how you think race is reflected in the current college basketball hiring process?

No I can't . I can tell you what I have heard. Now I know this is not scientific evidence but it's what "the story" is.

Well respected woman official, D2, Occasional D1 schedule,who is African-American is encouraged to recruit more African-American women to the local HS Assoc. She does. One lady sticks past her first year. They move her up,put her in the high profile games....and take a guess...she is not developing like they had hoped. SO now it looks like they are stuck with her, and her high profile schedule, not improving like they hoped, and they don't seem to know what to do with her.

So I know she was hired on race and gender. Does it bother me , not in the least. DO I care, nope. Will it impact my schedule, nope. I came into this in my early 40's so its not like I'm going to the Vegas camp and get hired by the PAc 10.....

I was also a little confused on why you thought my other post needed to deleted. I wasn't trying to be offensive. I wasn't trying to be anything, really. Jusy giving my thoughts on a topic.

[tomegun]

I said that because what you and another poster said may be true, but my TV is on college basketball a lot and...

But Jamie Luckie is on doing the WV/Pitt game and he is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Brad

Apparently the Big Sky disagrees with you.

Apparently your clueless about what you can actually go to the monitor for!!! They should've went to the monitor to see if when the WHISTLE was blown that there was TIME still on the clock. If there was then they should've granted the T/O and added the appropriate time on the clock, assessed the "T" and shot the throws.

Just a suggestion...read the OP!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Apparently your clueless about what you can actually go to the monitor for!!!

Seeing that Brad is a D1 official, I kinda doubt that's true.

[tomegun]

Timing under Rule 2.

Art 2. Officials may use such available equipment only in the following situations:
c. Timing
3. Determine the correct time to be placed back on the game clock when the referee blows the whistle, signals for the game clock to be stopped, and in his/her judgement time has elapsed before the game clock stopped.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Apparently your clueless about what you can actually go to the monitor for!!! They should've went to the monitor to see if when the WHISTLE was blown that there was TIME still on the clock. If there was then they should've granted the T/O and added the appropriate time on the clock, assessed the "T" and shot the throws.

That's correct, but doesn't seem to agree with what you wrote earlier...

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I just don't think that the rule book will allow you to go back and penalize a excessive T/O request made before the final horn, after the horn went off, either with/without a whistle after the horn.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Just a suggestion...read the OP!

Oh ... and I did read the OP, but if you think I read all 6 pages of what followed you would be wrong

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Brad

That's correct, but doesn't seem to agree with what you wrote earlier...

Good catch, I thought the same thing. Maybe Gimlet will come back and say what he really thinks.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Brad

That's correct, but doesn't seem to agree with what you wrote earlier...

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I just don't think that the rule book will allow you to go back and penalize a excessive T/O request made before the final horn, after the horn went off, either with/without a whistle after the horn..

That's perfectly clear to me and completely different from why the Big Sky suspended their officials, and I agree with Gim's statement.