Wreck ball...

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The only point that I was trying to make is wreak ball in this state, is not likely that dealing with kids.

There is an organization that is called the Illinois Elementary High School Association. It works similarly to the IHSA and has most middle schools and elementary schools as members throughout the state. The reason that is important is because these games are run like normal games and have standards of sportsmanship and consequences for bad behavior.

In the Chicago area most schools are not a member of the IESA (if any at all). But most middle schools or grammar schools still have basketball teams but they either are just a member to a local conference and they play amongst each other for a no specific title.

The IESA has a state champion in different classes or divisions for their members. All these examples take place during the school year.

And because Bear is from my surrounding area, what we would call wreck ball is not the same thing as what others here might call wreck ball. Wreak ball is Adults playing basketball at some park district or school with has-beens and never weres trying to act like they can still play. And the rules can vary in many ways as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior. I would never recommend a newer official to work those to improve their game. If they want to make an extra buck, that is fine if they realize the things that come with that type of game.

Peace

This is more what I was wondering...

So your saying that I wont benefit much from these games??

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

This is more what I was wondering...

So your saying that I wont benefit much from these games??

I think everyone has to decide what they can get out of something themselves. I just think there are plenty of other opportunities to get better and to keep up on your officiating. The problem is that the people you work with and the quality of the games are not likely going to be top-notch. If you go into with one intention you might run into something else.

[blindzebra]

Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.

I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.

Sure the ball is often poor and the attitude of the players even worse BUT knowing that going in allows you to get past it. You can work on your game, work on your game management and you get ample opportunity to weed through all the screw ball situations without the worry you'd have about getting it right.

Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.

I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.

Sure the ball is often poor and the attitude of the players even worse BUT knowing that going in allows you to get past it. You can work on your game, work on your game management and you get ample opportunity to weed through all the screw ball situations without the worry you'd have about getting it right.

Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.

Thats what I was thinking... that I would weed through alot of the bs stuff that i havn't seen yet. The level that I'm doing is.. "too nice"... I havn't issued a T... not that I want to, but I need to push myself... to handle the messy situations too....

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Thats what I was thinking... that I would weed through alot of the bs stuff that i havn't seen yet. The level that I'm doing is.. "too nice"... I havn't issued a T... not that I want to, but I need to push myself... to handle the messy situations too....

Then men's rec leagues are definitely what you're looking for! lol

[Mark Padgett]

Around here, most of the refs with whom I work use the term "wreck ball" just for men's leagues. Kids leagues are not usually put in the same category at all. It's very unusual to find kids who are angry at life because 10 or 20 years ago they were cut from their HS team and, of course, it was because the coach played favorites and life just isn't fair so now they have something to prove, including taking out the aggressions that built up that day at work and at home onto a basketball court.

Or something like that.

[BillyMac]

When I first started officiating, I did several years of high school level recreation basketball. With the exception of "convenient" switching, I treated these games like any other high school varsity, or junior varsity assignment. When I first started, the coaches, and players, weren't used to me, and what I expected from them in terms of sportsmanship, etc., so there were lots of technical fouls. After a several games they all got used to me, watching me consistently make calls from week to week, watching me hustle, observing me showing up in full proper uniform, etc. After that, it was easy. I was even asked to do playoff games, by the coaches, every year.

Set a good example, set high expectations for yourself, and the coaches and players will follow suit.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.

I disagree with that. There are a lot of experiences many people do not want to face or deal with. Officiating is not always fun at all levels. And working wreck ball is not always fun or helpful. Not because I say so, because you might not see actual offenses or defenses run. Usually you get the "4-star" offense. Four guys standing around the 3 point line and one guy that think they are Shaq trying to post up.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.

I tried it and I did not like it. It did not help me get better and I worked with many partners that did not even do HS games or any other HS ball, so I could not work on any mechanics and the guys I worked with did not know the rules. Not sure that has anything to do with being elitist, it has more to do with sharing my experience that it did not help. Ultimately an individual has to decide what they want to do. Some people have to figure it out for themselves.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.

This is another thing I do not agree with. Because the atmosphere is totally different and the things you might allow a man to say to you, you should never allow a child to say to you. And many officials do not make distinctions between the levels.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with that. There are a lot of experiences many people do not want to face or deal with. Officiating is not always fun at all levels. And working wreck ball is not always fun or helpful. Not because I say so, because you might not see actual offenses or defenses run. Usually you get the "4-star" offense. Four guys standing around the 3 point line and one guy that think they are Shaq trying to post up.



I tried it and I did not like it. It did not help me get better and I worked with many partners that did not even do HS games or any other HS ball, so I could not work on any mechanics and the guys I worked with did not know the rules. Not sure that has anything to do with being elitist, it has more to do with sharing my experience that it did not help. Ultimately an individual has to decide what they want to do. Some people have to figure it out for themselves.



This is another thing I do not agree with. Because the atmosphere is totally different and the things you might allow a man to say to you, you should never allow a child to say to you. And many officials do not make distinctions between the levels.

Peace

So just because you couldn't improve or work on your game doing it doesn't mean others can't.

I know for an absolute fact that my game management skills improved greatly. So did my judgment. And by concentrating on what I was doing my mechanics didn't take a hit either.

Not only that but leagues very greatly...I've done the sumo-ball and I've done leagues where you had several former NBA and D1 players and you can't tell me that that level of play doesn't improve your skills.

So all that are out there thinking about it just know that it won't always be pleasant but unlike what some are saying you can and will get something from it. Just like getting officiating advice, take from it what works and disregard the rest.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

So just because you couldn't improve or work on your game doing it doesn't mean others can't.

I know for an absolute fact that my game management skills improved greatly. So did my judgment. And by concentrating on what I was doing my mechanics didn't take a hit either.

Not only that but leagues very greatly...I've done the sumo-ball and I've done leagues where you had several former NBA and D1 players and you can't tell me that that level of play doesn't improve your skills.

So all that are out there thinking about it just know that it won't always be pleasant but unlike what some are saying you can and will get something from it. Just like getting officiating advice, take from it what works and disregard the rest.

Once again, it is just an opinion. And I have worked a tournament with former D1 and lower level college and former NBA players. It was not all that. And all it did was frustrate the hell out of me and many officials that worked the games. As a matter of fact many of the officials that worked those games were not officials that all of a sudden got better schedules as a result. And that is why I never said to not do it, but I personally think it is very much hit and miss if you get much out of it. And I am not the only one that has come to that conclusion. Now where you live this might be the bomb, but in my experience most officials do this for a pure money grab. And they do not care about helping other officials get better or trying to use proper mechanics.

That being said, the young officials had to choose for themselves what is right for them. I do not think you or I can do anything but share our experiences. And if they choose to work that level, they can decide either way.

Peace

[lpbreeze]

I've liked doing the rec games so far but I can see why people wouldn't like them. I've had adults swear to me that they never touched the guy when the player they fouled is lying on the floor bleeding. The funny/sad thing is they aren't kidding. You could be the best ref in the world and a rec game could still be filled with tons of complaints. But having played in a few adult leagues I'm gotten used to the situations and as a ref I'm just rolling with it and the games have gone smoothly enough. and wearing shorts is nice too.