Wreck ball...

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What is called "wreak ball" around here is usually has nothing to do with kids. Kid’s basketball is usually associated with a school or a travel/AAU type team. And in either case, a lot of what benefit you will get out of the league is going to depend on the league and the kind of games. And I have not seen any "wreak" ball that has a normal clock and normal rules procedures that would require or expect good mechanics. In most games with youth basketball is not much different than the adult variety just they are with kids.

I think this is not the case in many areas. Most schools have a basketball program of some kind and that is where most kids are going to play. The days of the YMCA having an in-house team do not seem to be very common anymore.

Peace

Guess it depends on where you're at. Around here we have LOTS of non-school stuff for the kids. Most of the HS teams have "Select" teams for younger kids who will eventually end up going to that HS. There is the Oregon Prep league that plays all over the place. Lots of AAU stuff. And many of the Middle Schools do not have athletic programs so the kids play Community Ed leagues...

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Guess it depends on where you're at.

Concur - when I talk Wreck ball, I am referring to the youth Recreational Leagues in my area - NOT adult leagues. Never even thought about that.

Sheesh, it's bad enough I gotta worry about NFHS vs IABO vs NCAA vs NBA rules.....now I gotta worry about the definition of Rec ball? Yikes, I'm a bit slow!

[Back In The Saddle]

If you're going to work wreck ball, then go in with the attitude that you're going to work on your game. Have a couple of things in mind every game to work on, then do it. In fact, it can be a great place to work on things that might otherwise be distracting in a "real" game. Do not let yourself become lazy in your mechanics or lax in calling the game.

The burnout factor is real. You're probably not worried about it now. But you don't want to get to next season and realize that you don't want to do it any more. So set a reasonable limit on how many games you work, even if they want you every night of the week.

Finally, don't take any more crap in a wreck league game than you would in a HS varsity. Especially in men's leagues where, over time, whining steadily fills the void vacated by any actual ability they used to have. Make 'em play good D; clean up the stupid little stuff these long-in-the-tooth former warriors have come to depend on because they've lost a step. If you can keep the play clean and the ball goes in the hole, well, that's about the best you can hope for really.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Concur - when I talk Wreck ball, I am referring to the youth Recreational Leagues in my area - NOT adult leagues. Never even thought about that.

Sheesh, it's bad enough I gotta worry about NFHS vs IABO vs NCAA vs NBA rules.....now I gotta worry about the definition of Rec ball? Yikes, I'm a bit slow!

Not every area is organized the same. Basketball is big time in this state and most schools have basketball programs. There would be not very many kids to participate if you tried to have a wreck league. And now all types of summer programs with either AAU or YBOA (there are a couple of other organizations) there are not any youth basketball leagues like the YMCA anymore. There might be a few, but it is not the norm.

Peace

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not every area is organized the same. Basketball is big time in this state and most schools have basketball programs. There would be not very many kids to participate if you tried to have a wreck league. And now all types of summer programs with either AAU or YBOA (there are a couple of other organizations) there are not any youth basketball leagues like the YMCA anymore. There might be a few, but it is not the norm.

Peace

Totally agree with JRut...the YMCA/Church/School Township Leagues are losing players every year.

Our rec program is down 60 kids(6 teams) in the 5th/6th grade league just from last year. We only have 12 teams in that league and 12 in the 3rd/4th and 12 in 7th/8th. About 4 years ago you had 18 teams in each league or 540 kids.

The reason...multi-sport facilities and dedicated hoops facilities like the one I posted earlier are opening fast and in a hurry in Indy. There are now 4 of these places around the city and another one on the far northside just opened up as well. The teams/leagues are more competitive and "open" format like AAU where you'll have kids from multiple schools on one team.

Our rec league only allows the kids within the township to play in it, so there is a "limited" number of kids available anyway...They field 2-3 "travel" teams from grades 3-6 so that pulls outta the number of kids in the rec program.

[grunewar]

Understand, thanks for the look at how other parts of the country do it.

Here in NVA some counties have large MS and small/no Youth Rec Leagues, while others have no MS and large Youth Rec Leagues. Plus, we have travel and AAU teams - then JV and Varsity.

Some Youth Rec have Spring and Summer leagues too. Lots to do here! ....and that's without doing "Adult Rec" league which I admit I am not familiar with here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Totally agree with JRut...the YMCA/Church/School Township Leagues are losing players every year.

The only point that I was trying to make is wreak ball in this state, is not likely that dealing with kids.

There is an organization that is called the Illinois Elementary High School Association. It works similarly to the IHSA and has most middle schools and elementary schools as members throughout the state. The reason that is important is because these games are run like normal games and have standards of sportsmanship and consequences for bad behavior.

In the Chicago area most schools are not a member of the IESA (if any at all). But most middle schools or grammar schools still have basketball teams but they either are just a member to a local conference and they play amongst each other for a no specific title.

The IESA has a state champion in different classes or divisions for their members. All these examples take place during the school year.

And because Bear is from my surrounding area, what we would call wreck ball is not the same thing as what others here might call wreck ball. Wreak ball is Adults playing basketball at some park district or school with has-beens and never weres trying to act like they can still play. And the rules can vary in many ways as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior. I would never recommend a newer official to work those to improve their game. If they want to make an extra buck, that is fine if they realize the things that come with that type of game.

Peace

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The only point that I was trying to make is wreak ball in this state, is not likely that dealing with kids.

There is an organization that is called the Illinois Elementary High School Association. It works similarly to the IHSA and has most middle schools and elementary schools as members throughout the state. The reason that is important is because these games are run like normal games and have standards of sportsmanship and consequences for bad behavior.

In the Chicago area most schools are not a member of the IESA (if any at all). But most middle schools or grammar schools still have basketball teams but they either are just a member to a local conference and they play amongst each other for a no specific title.

The IESA has a state champion in different classes or divisions for their members. All these examples take place during the school year.

And because Bear is from my surrounding area, what we would call wreck ball is not the same thing as what others here might call wreck ball. Wreak ball is Adults playing basketball at some park district or school with has-beens and never weres trying to act like they can still play. And the rules can vary in many ways as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior. I would never recommend a newer official to work those to improve their game. If they want to make an extra buck, that is fine if they realize the things that come with that type of game.

Peace

This is more what I was wondering...

So your saying that I wont benefit much from these games??

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

I think I'm going to open my availability to Wreck ball...
Any advice...

Just two words: mor phene

And the mor, the better!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

This is more what I was wondering...

So your saying that I wont benefit much from these games??

I think everyone has to decide what they can get out of something themselves. I just think there are plenty of other opportunities to get better and to keep up on your officiating. The problem is that the people you work with and the quality of the games are not likely going to be top-notch. If you go into with one intention you might run into something else.

[blindzebra]

Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.

I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.

Sure the ball is often poor and the attitude of the players even worse BUT knowing that going in allows you to get past it. You can work on your game, work on your game management and you get ample opportunity to weed through all the screw ball situations without the worry you'd have about getting it right.

Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Experience is never a bad thing, the more you work the more you'll see, and the better your judgment gets.

I hate seeing the elitist BS about rec ball.

Sure the ball is often poor and the attitude of the players even worse BUT knowing that going in allows you to get past it. You can work on your game, work on your game management and you get ample opportunity to weed through all the screw ball situations without the worry you'd have about getting it right.

Concentrate on your game and if you can handle the has-beens/wanna-bees/never-wases no player or coach in a "real" game is gonna be a problem.

Thats what I was thinking... that I would weed through alot of the bs stuff that i havn't seen yet. The level that I'm doing is.. "too nice"... I havn't issued a T... not that I want to, but I need to push myself... to handle the messy situations too....

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Thats what I was thinking... that I would weed through alot of the bs stuff that i havn't seen yet. The level that I'm doing is.. "too nice"... I havn't issued a T... not that I want to, but I need to push myself... to handle the messy situations too....

Then men's rec leagues are definitely what you're looking for! lol

[Mark Padgett]

Around here, most of the refs with whom I work use the term "wreck ball" just for men's leagues. Kids leagues are not usually put in the same category at all. It's very unusual to find kids who are angry at life because 10 or 20 years ago they were cut from their HS team and, of course, it was because the coach played favorites and life just isn't fair so now they have something to prove, including taking out the aggressions that built up that day at work and at home onto a basketball court.

Or something like that.

[BillyMac]

When I first started officiating, I did several years of high school level recreation basketball. With the exception of "convenient" switching, I treated these games like any other high school varsity, or junior varsity assignment. When I first started, the coaches, and players, weren't used to me, and what I expected from them in terms of sportsmanship, etc., so there were lots of technical fouls. After a several games they all got used to me, watching me consistently make calls from week to week, watching me hustle, observing me showing up in full proper uniform, etc. After that, it was easy. I was even asked to do playoff games, by the coaches, every year.

Set a good example, set high expectations for yourself, and the coaches and players will follow suit.