Ratting out a fellow ref?

[jdw3018]

Man, that's a bummer. Sounds like you have contacted the officials from the game - I'd be sure they knew exactly what I said and that you're quite upset w/ the AD changing what you said.

I don't know that I'd contact the AD directly - I don't know that it serves a purpose at this point.

The only thing I may have changed from your description is to back up the officials even more - by saying from your angle in the crowd you thought it was actually the right (no) call. Then he has to out-and-out lie to tell them what he told them. The way you put it "they had the best angle and not all contact is a foul" could be interepreted as a PC way of saying "I didn't agree with it."

I wouldn't have gotten into what he did, but I'm never afraid to tell a coach or administrator that I agree with officials' calls in another game. Especially when I actually do agree!

[lmeadski]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The only thing I may have changed from your description is to back up the officials even more - by saying from your angle in the crowd you thought it was actually the right (no) call. Then he has to out-and-out lie to tell them what he told them. The way you put it "they had the best angle and not all contact is a foul" could be interepreted as a PC way of saying "I didn't agree with it."

When the play happened, I was sitting two people away from the mom of the injured player. Of course, she was surrounded by all her friends. And, of course, all her friends felt the need to support her by hurling as many curses and insults as they could at the refs. One of them then asks me, "You were the ref in the other game, wasn't that a foul?" I don't remember what I said but I remember his reply, "You sons a *****in refs are all the same." I think I had concurred with refs call. That comment is what drove me to be a bit more political with the AD. Not that I disagree with your comment...And, JRut, you are right, silence is golden. However, I felt the verbal support of my brothers was needed at the time.

[BayStateRef]

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

[lmeadski]

so I don't have to keep an eye on it in the stands. This is standard for refs in our area that watch subsequent games. I usually watch until half and then leave (young kids at home, like to say goodnight to them before they hit the sack).

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

Pretty standard a lot of places for officials to listen in on pre-game, halftime, and post-game of officials in other games.

[Drizzle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Pretty standard a lot of places for officials to listen in on pre-game, halftime, and post-game of officials in other games.

As a young official, I always try to stay and watch the varsity game when I do the JV game - it's helped me learn a ton, especially about communication with partners & coaches. I think it's a great tool when you have guys who like to teach. That being said, I stay quiet until they're done talking about adjustments/situations for the next half.

[archangel]

Working Boys frosh/JV with a 13 yr veteran. Intro'd myself prior, explaining I'm a 2nd year newbe. Pardner seemed depressed about something, said he didnt like working these games, while I was excited (persective, no?). Frosh game a blowout, w/no problems.
JV visitor had a player throw an elbow after a rebound, no contact, and was warned about it. Close game in the 4thQ, loose ball "scrum" in the paint, when lead calls a foul. Vcoach then yells to partner that "he's losing control of the game" (no rough play to that point, and 1st words heard from that coach ). Partner immediately whistles/signals a T. I'm walking toward Vcoach to seatbelt him when partner reports T on player #34 (elbowman). Game plays out w/ no other issues.
Officials room is just offcourt and I catch up to partner right as we enter room(with the 3 V officials), and ask him what #34 did to get the T(I'm thinking he threw an elbow). He says he didnt like the look on 34's face and knew the coach would pull him off the floor.
All 3 V officials stop what they're doing and look at us, started questioning partner on why, with him kinda giving me the look.
Thought afterwards I might've thrown him under the bus, but never expected That answer, then thought that its his issue as 1) he actually admitted his real "reason " for the T and 2) saying it in front of the V guys.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by archangel

Working Boys frosh/JV with a 13 yr veteran. Intro'd myself prior, explaining I'm a 2nd year newbe. Pardner seemed depressed about something, said he didnt like working these games, while I was excited (persective, no?). Frosh game a blowout, w/no problems.
JV visitor had a player throw an elbow after a rebound, no contact, and was warned about it. Close game in the 4thQ, loose ball "scrum" in the paint, when lead calls a foul. Vcoach then yells to partner that "he's losing control of the game" (no rough play to that point, and 1st words heard from that coach ). Partner immediately whistles/signals a T. I'm walking toward Vcoach to seatbelt him when partner reports T on player #34 (elbowman). Game plays out w/ no other issues.
Officials room is just offcourt and I catch up to partner right as we enter room(with the 3 V officials), and ask him what #34 did to get the T(I'm thinking he threw an elbow). He says he didnt like the look on 34's face and knew the coach would pull him off the floor.
All 3 V officials stop what they're doing and look at us, started questioning partner on why, with him kinda giving me the look.
Thought afterwards I might've thrown him under the bus, but never expected That answer, then thought that its his issue as 1) he actually admitted his real "reason " for the T and 2) saying it in front of the V guys.

Your partner owns that one all on his own. There is nothing wrong with asking your partner what a player did to deserve a T in the way you did...away from the players/coaches/fans. The fact that other officials were there is not your problem. The fact that he made such a stupid call is all on him...he opened himself up to the grief he got.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

In our association, we always let our fellow refs come in at halftime and after the games. All we say is, let the crew have their own discussion first, and then if you have anything to add or ask about, feel free. Generally, the crew takes a few minutes at halftime to discuss things, and then at some point, we will ask our fellow officials who were watching if they've seen anything else, or even ask their opinion about a specific play such as this situation.

[Coltdoggs]

Not sure if this would alleviate any issues but if you were to gather the AD and the other officiating crew together to speak about this, the truth could come out....sounds as if the AD is not going to be forthright with your actual words but having all interested parties face to face certianly can eliminate the he said, he said garbage...

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Not sure if this would alleviate any issues but if you were to gather the AD and the other officiating crew together to speak about this, the truth could come out....sounds as if the AD is not going to be forthright with your actual words but having all interested parties face to face certianly can eliminate the he said, he said garbage...

Or the coach could just feel cornered and become all the more insistent and demonstrative about his version of "the truth." Then what do you do? Try to shout him down? He knows he's in trouble, maybe even his job is on the line. He openly lied to the other officials. I doubt he's the sort of stand-up guy who would man up and admit to what he did.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

This is common practice around here. If I'm spectating and come in during halftime, I will offer any input if asked. If not, I don't say anything in regards to particular plays in the game or calls in general. If I'm reffing and I have fellow officials come in on my game and I know they were in the stands, I solicit their input.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

This is common practice around here. If I'm spectating and come in during halftime, I will offer any input if asked. If not, I don't say anything in regards to particular plays in the game or calls in general. If I'm reffing and I have fellow officials come in on my game and I know they were in the stands, I solicit their input.

Same common practice here in Connecticut, especailly during conference and state tournament games. We all have membershnip cards that get us into all basketball games for free.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Same common practice here in Connecticut, especailly during conference and state tournament games. We all have membershnip cards that get us into all basketball games for free.

FWIW, Billy, you can actually get into any HS game in any sport for free.

[cmckenna]

Mark,

I thought the CIAC cards were good only for the sport(s) you officiate???