Ratting out a fellow ref?

[lmeadski]

We had an interesting development at a BV game the other night. I had reffed the game prior, GV, and stuck around to watch the boys. When I do this I sit by myself, i don't applaud, I don't cheer. I merely watch. As the BV game approached halftime, there was a major player collision at mid court: A1 attempted to save a ball going out of bounds on his endline. As he grabbed and threw the ball high and deep into the court, he stepped on the line which drew a whistle from the lead. However, his toss sent the ball on its way towards the top of the key. A2 was moving towards the ball as was B1: A2 a 5-11, 150 lb PG, B1 a 6-4 225lb all-state linebacker. They were approaching from opposite directions, facing each other as they went for the ball which was coming down between them. On the OOB whistle, both players slowed down a bit but locked their arms together at the elbow when they collided. Accordingly, the 225 all stater brought his arm down which brought A2 down like a sack of potatoes. The refs were preparing for the throw-in so only one ref, the trail, got a look at the play and he chose to not make a call. As a fan (and official), I concurred. However, we were in As gym, where the no call brought fans to the edge of the court, including their AD, pointing and screaming at the refs. Much discussion followed, with no call except the OOB. This was just before half. I went in to see my ref brothers at half, heard them discuss their dismay with the situation, but felt they got the call right: I concurred. On my way out of the gym, I was approached by Team A's AD. He asked if I had seen the play. I said I did, waiting for him to ask what I thought (he had displayed quite a bit of anger as he attended to A2). To my surprise, he asked if I had watched HIM and what HE had done on the court. It seems his principal told him his over-the-top conduct was going to draw him an official school reprimand. He asked if I had seen him, and as the official from the prior game, could I tell his super what had happened, that he hadn't misbehaved. I told him I had been watching the players and the refs, nothing else. He THEN asked if the play should have drawn a foul on B1? I told him that the fans certainly expect calls when they see and hear what they had just seen but that not all contact is a foul and that the refs on the floor had the best view of anyone in the gym. After that, I got in my car and went home. I find out today he went back to talk to the refs after the game and told them he had spoken with an official who had seen the play and that they had blown the call. Of course the refs saw the AD intercept me as I was leaving the gym. They put 2 and 2 together and got 5: I had ratted them out (their words, not mine). I have since relayed my version to the affected refs. Not sure where they stand. I am surprised at the liberty the AD took with my words. Just venting here as I mull whether or not to call him. And, did I cross a line by even entertaining his question?

[Mark Padgett]

Don't call him. Instead, have your lawyer contact the school district and ask who their legal representative is that needs to be notified of intent to file a slander suit against a district employee.

That should get some response.

[Bearfanmike20]

I would NEVER turn in an official for a game that I was not reffing, but...

I have turned in partners that I have had for HORRIBLE conduct that should never happen. EX: Screaming at coaches and fans.

[jdw3018]

Man, that's a bummer. Sounds like you have contacted the officials from the game - I'd be sure they knew exactly what I said and that you're quite upset w/ the AD changing what you said.

I don't know that I'd contact the AD directly - I don't know that it serves a purpose at this point.

The only thing I may have changed from your description is to back up the officials even more - by saying from your angle in the crowd you thought it was actually the right (no) call. Then he has to out-and-out lie to tell them what he told them. The way you put it "they had the best angle and not all contact is a foul" could be interepreted as a PC way of saying "I didn't agree with it."

I wouldn't have gotten into what he did, but I'm never afraid to tell a coach or administrator that I agree with officials' calls in another game. Especially when I actually do agree!

[JRutledge]

Silence cannot be quoted. If you did not have the conversation with the AD, he could not take the conversation to another level.

Peace

[lmeadski]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The only thing I may have changed from your description is to back up the officials even more - by saying from your angle in the crowd you thought it was actually the right (no) call. Then he has to out-and-out lie to tell them what he told them. The way you put it "they had the best angle and not all contact is a foul" could be interepreted as a PC way of saying "I didn't agree with it."

When the play happened, I was sitting two people away from the mom of the injured player. Of course, she was surrounded by all her friends. And, of course, all her friends felt the need to support her by hurling as many curses and insults as they could at the refs. One of them then asks me, "You were the ref in the other game, wasn't that a foul?" I don't remember what I said but I remember his reply, "You sons a *****in refs are all the same." I think I had concurred with refs call. That comment is what drove me to be a bit more political with the AD. Not that I disagree with your comment...And, JRut, you are right, silence is golden. However, I felt the verbal support of my brothers was needed at the time.

[BayStateRef]

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

[lmeadski]

so I don't have to keep an eye on it in the stands. This is standard for refs in our area that watch subsequent games. I usually watch until half and then leave (young kids at home, like to say goodnight to them before they hit the sack).

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

Pretty standard a lot of places for officials to listen in on pre-game, halftime, and post-game of officials in other games.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

In our association, we always let our fellow refs come in at halftime and after the games. All we say is, let the crew have their own discussion first, and then if you have anything to add or ask about, feel free. Generally, the crew takes a few minutes at halftime to discuss things, and then at some point, we will ask our fellow officials who were watching if they've seen anything else, or even ask their opinion about a specific play such as this situation.

[Coltdoggs]

Not sure if this would alleviate any issues but if you were to gather the AD and the other officiating crew together to speak about this, the truth could come out....sounds as if the AD is not going to be forthright with your actual words but having all interested parties face to face certianly can eliminate the he said, he said garbage...

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are a spectator at the game. Why do you go to the locker room at halftime? If you want to talk about the play, wait until after the game, when you meet them for a drink.

This is common practice around here. If I'm spectating and come in during halftime, I will offer any input if asked. If not, I don't say anything in regards to particular plays in the game or calls in general. If I'm reffing and I have fellow officials come in on my game and I know they were in the stands, I solicit their input.

[Drizzle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Pretty standard a lot of places for officials to listen in on pre-game, halftime, and post-game of officials in other games.

As a young official, I always try to stay and watch the varsity game when I do the JV game - it's helped me learn a ton, especially about communication with partners & coaches. I think it's a great tool when you have guys who like to teach. That being said, I stay quiet until they're done talking about adjustments/situations for the next half.

[archangel]

Working Boys frosh/JV with a 13 yr veteran. Intro'd myself prior, explaining I'm a 2nd year newbe. Pardner seemed depressed about something, said he didnt like working these games, while I was excited (persective, no?). Frosh game a blowout, w/no problems.
JV visitor had a player throw an elbow after a rebound, no contact, and was warned about it. Close game in the 4thQ, loose ball "scrum" in the paint, when lead calls a foul. Vcoach then yells to partner that "he's losing control of the game" (no rough play to that point, and 1st words heard from that coach ). Partner immediately whistles/signals a T. I'm walking toward Vcoach to seatbelt him when partner reports T on player #34 (elbowman). Game plays out w/ no other issues.
Officials room is just offcourt and I catch up to partner right as we enter room(with the 3 V officials), and ask him what #34 did to get the T(I'm thinking he threw an elbow). He says he didnt like the look on 34's face and knew the coach would pull him off the floor.
All 3 V officials stop what they're doing and look at us, started questioning partner on why, with him kinda giving me the look.
Thought afterwards I might've thrown him under the bus, but never expected That answer, then thought that its his issue as 1) he actually admitted his real "reason " for the T and 2) saying it in front of the V guys.

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Don't call him. Instead, have your lawyer contact the school district and ask who their legal representative is that needs to be notified of intent to file a slander suit against a district employee.

That should get some response.

The AD was concerned about what you saw and what could be reported to the principal. Speak with your association and have the board write a letter to the principal explaining the situation.

Remember, your child is an angel. Every other kid is a thug.