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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:43pm
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My first T

In other news, I had my first unsportsmanlike T last night. Boys 6th grade travel playoffs, consolation side of the bracket. We had a mismatch, probably the team that just missed the championship playoffs against a winless or nearly winless team. It was something like 48-13 with about 3 minutes left, running clock (20-point 4th quarter mercy rule in this league.)

There was a held ball. I gave it to black. I'm sure I was right (last held ball was only a few plays prior, I had it in my pocket with my spare whistle, and the table had it as well). Blue's assistant coach, also doing their visiting team scorebook is sitting at the far end of the bench, and as I'm ready to administer he starts yelling that it should be blue. I know he's wrong and he isn't the official book or sitting at the table, so I see no reason to stop and go talk to him. I hand the ball off to the black thrower, and he slams the scorebook to the floor for all to hear. WHACK.

He came up to us after the game (we had a second game ten minutes after) and shook our hands and apologized. I think frustration just boiled over and he knew he crossed the line.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:52pm
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Blue vs. Black?? how could you tell the difference? Or was it some sort of baby sky blue?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:13pm
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Next time use this old chestnut: "Coach, I'm sure we're right, but in just case we're not, we'll give you 2 out of the next 3. OK?" If he balks, try 3 out of the next 5.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:23pm
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It's been my experience that ANY sort of discrepancy at the scorer's table is best handled immediately. Even in this case if you had just taken 10-15 seconds and said, "We just had a jump ball a minute ago, I'm keeping track myself, and the official arrow points this way, so that's how it's gonna be." I know it's tough to say so with the score being what it was, but ignore that for a minute and let's assume the score was tied with 3 minutes to play in a very competitive game. If, as you're about to put the ball in play, one of the scorers is screaming for your attention because they think possession should go the other way, would you stop then? I would hope so.

I know in games like this we all just want to keep the clock running, because often bad stuff happens in blowouts like this (losing team gets frustrated; bruisers come off the bench to finally get playing time, etc...)...but I think in this case, if you'd taken just 10-15 seconds to verify the arrow direction, you probably could've avoided the T, and saved an additional minute+ from the T free throw administration...
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Next time use this old chestnut: "Coach, I'm sure we're right, but in just case we're not, we'll give you 2 out of the next 3. OK?" If he balks, try 3 out of the next 5.
Mark - I used that exact line the other night while I was coaching (Rec Ball). Table and Refs were a bit confused about the AP Arrow.....we were up by 10 in the 3rd quarter, so I told em to stop arguing/discussing it and to give it to the other team and "we'll take the next 2 out of 3." Got a couple of double takes and eventually one grin.......

Hate to admit it, but some of you guys are actually rubbing off on me.....for better or for worse!?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_ref
It's been my experience that ANY sort of discrepancy at the scorer's table is best handled immediately. Even in this case if you had just taken 10-15 seconds and said, "We just had a jump ball a minute ago, I'm keeping track myself, and the official arrow points this way, so that's how it's gonna be." I know it's tough to say so with the score being what it was, but ignore that for a minute and let's assume the score was tied with 3 minutes to play in a very competitive game. If, as you're about to put the ball in play, one of the scorers is screaming for your attention because they think possession should go the other way, would you stop then? I would hope so.

I know in games like this we all just want to keep the clock running, because often bad stuff happens in blowouts like this (losing team gets frustrated; bruisers come off the bench to finally get playing time, etc...)...but I think in this case, if you'd taken just 10-15 seconds to verify the arrow direction, you probably could've avoided the T, and saved an additional minute+ from the T free throw administration...
A discrepancy AT the scorer's table? Yeah. The V team's assistant coach sitting at the far end of the bench (the end away from the table) with a scorebook disagrees with the official book and the referee about a point on which the referee has actual knowledge? Nah. I don't think so.

If he wants to be a scorekeeper, he can sit with the scorekeeper. If he wants to be an assistant coach, he needs to adhere to the behavior required from assistant coaches. In this case, he can get his HC to go to the table and request a time out to prevent an error.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
A discrepancy AT the scorer's table? Yeah. The V team's assistant coach sitting at the far end of the bench (the end away from the table) with a scorebook disagrees with the official book and the referee about a point on which the referee has actual knowledge? Nah. I don't think so.

If he wants to be a scorekeeper, he can sit with the scorekeeper. If he wants to be an assistant coach, he needs to adhere to the behavior required from assistant coaches. In this case, he can get his HC to go to the table and request a time out to prevent an error.
A fine point. I must've glanced over the part where it said he was at the far end of the bench. In that case, whack 'em.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 04:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar
Mark - I used that exact line the other night while I was coaching (Rec Ball). Table and Refs were a bit confused about the AP Arrow.....we were up by 10 in the 3rd quarter, so I told em to stop arguing/discussing it and to give it to the other team and "we'll take the next 2 out of 3." Got a couple of double takes and eventually one grin.......

Hate to admit it, but some of you guys are actually rubbing off on me.....for better or for worse!?

Expect my invoice in a few days.
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Old Sat Feb 16, 2008, 01:23pm
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Copyright ???

"Coach, I'm sure we're right, but in just case we're not, we'll give you two out of the next three" Mark Padgett 2008

Mark Padgett: Have you copyrighted this line yet? It may be worth while for to to invest some time and cash in a lawyer, and make some money from this line. Hypotheticaly, for legal purposes, I may, I said, may, have used this line with success a few weeks ago.
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Old Sat Feb 16, 2008, 04:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_ref
It's been my experience that ANY sort of discrepancy at the scorer's table is best handled immediately. Even in this case if you had just taken 10-15 seconds and said, "We just had a jump ball a minute ago, I'm keeping track myself, and the official arrow points this way, so that's how it's gonna be." I know it's tough to say so with the score being what it was, but ignore that for a minute and let's assume the score was tied with 3 minutes to play in a very competitive game. If, as you're about to put the ball in play, one of the scorers is screaming for your attention because they think possession should go the other way, would you stop then? I would hope so.

I know in games like this we all just want to keep the clock running, because often bad stuff happens in blowouts like this (losing team gets frustrated; bruisers come off the bench to finally get playing time, etc...)...but I think in this case, if you'd taken just 10-15 seconds to verify the arrow direction, you probably could've avoided the T, and saved an additional minute+ from the T free throw administration...
This morning, I had a CYO tripleheder as the visitor. Home timer was asleep at the arrow half the time (especially witht he throw-in to start each quarter) and we had a situation where we had a jump ball and he forgot to switch the arrow with the previous AP throw-in. Important thing is that if there is a discrepancy, to make sure it's resolved ASAP. And if all else fails, the next team gets 2 of the next 3 possessions.
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Old Sat Feb 16, 2008, 04:30pm
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Ca-Ching $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stat-Man
This morning, I had a CYO tripleheder as the visitor. Home timer was asleep at the arrow half the time (especially witht he throw-in to start each quarter) and we had a situation where we had a jump ball and he forgot to switch the arrow with the previous AP throw-in. Important thing is that if there is a discrepancy, to make sure it's resolved ASAP. And if all else fails, the next team gets 2 of the next 3 possessions.
More $$$$$ for Mark Padgett.
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