Tapping an airborne shooter

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

There's no way a "tap" displaces the shooter. It's not a push, not a slap, not a hold. He tapped him. I'm picturing a tap like tapping somebody on the shoulder to get their attention. That tap might displace a 3 pound basketball, but it absolutely does not displace a 100+ pound teenager. It just doesn't.


It's not like the tap on the elbow. The tap on the elbow actually changes the shooting motion. A tap on the leg doesn't change anything, and doesn't inhibit the normal offensive movement of the player.

I'm with Scrappy on this.

That's got to be 1 healthy tap to displace a human. If that's the case then we're not discussing a tap, we're discussing a push.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

There's no way a "tap" displaces the shooter. It's not a push, not a slap, not a hold. He tapped him. I'm picturing a tap like tapping somebody on the shoulder to get their attention.

What if a defender does taps the shooter on the shoulder then? And does get the shooter's attention? Is that OK? How about a tap on the nose with no displacement just when the shooter is letting the ball go on the shot? Little flick of the ear OK too?

Iow, I'm not talking "displacement"; I'm talking "breaking the shooter's concentration. Does that make any difference to you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm with Scrappy on this.

Sycophant.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What if a defender does taps the shooter on the shoulder then? And does get the shooter's attention? Is that OK? How about a tap on the nose with no displacement just when the shooter is letting the ball go on the shot? Little flick of the ear OK too?

Iow, I'm not talking "displacement"; I'm talking "breaking the shooter's concentration. Does that make any difference to you?

I agree with JR 100%, I'm a ticklish guy and if somebody touches me on the stomach or ribs while I'm shooting, it totally blows my shot.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

I agree with JR 100%, I'm a ticklish guy and if somebody touches me on the stomach or ribs while I'm shooting, it totally blows my shot.

I'm thinking we might need a new foul category -- Tickling? And a new signal?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Are you serious?

You have contact that AFFECTS a shot and that's just peachy keen in your opinion?

Are you really serious, Joe?

Lah me.......

If an official thought that a tap didn't affect the shooter, then it certainly is OK to let it go. It's a judgment call. But to judge that a tap did affect the shooter and then let it go is absolutely ridiculous imo.

If the TAP on the leg doesn't hinder the shooter from performing his NORMAL offensive movement, and it affects him "MENTALLY" like I'm judging by the OP that it did or the OP assumed it "DISTRACTED" him, then yes, I'M PASSING!! And I'm only saying this for those little taps on the leg and butt or where ever on the mid or lower sections of the body. Again, TAP, not hit that causes the body part or leg to move, a frickin TAP that doesn't affect his normal or natural motion of shooting. I am passing, period. So we can agree to disagree, you can call that all you want, I will continue to not call it. And again, in my personal experience, IF I consistently make this TAP on the LEG call, it could and would have a direct affect on my officiating avocation.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What if a defender does taps the shooter on the shoulder then? And does get the shooter's attention? Is that OK?

Of course it's ok, and it happens all the time. Guy goes to block a shot, but the shooter is able to move mostly around him, defender ends up missing the ball and getting a light tap or brush on the arm or shoulder. This happens all the time. It doesn't affect the shot. I've got bigger things to worry about in my games than an "and 1" for a tap on the leg or shoulder.

Iow, I'm not talking "displacement"; I'm talking "breaking the shooter's concentration. Does that make any difference to you?

As others have said on this forum, "This isn't golf". If a tap on your leg distracts you to the point that you can't focus on your shot, you need to find a new sport.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Again, TAP, not hit that causes the body part or leg to move, a frickin TAP that doesn't affect his normal or natural motion of shooting. I am passing, period.

That is completely different than what you stated in your other post. In the post where I disagreed with you, you stated that you wouldn't call a tap that DID affect the shooter. There's one heckuva big difference between the two situations...as in night and day.

Contact that affects a shooter is a foul. Always. Contact that doesn't affect the shooter is incidental contact.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Hold the presses a sec. So, that I understand correctly. A tap is nothing on an airborne shooter. (incidental contact).

So, I take it from YOUR perspective if a defender makes contact on an airborne shooter while the airborne shooter is in the air, in an attempt to box out the shooter prior to the airborne shooter returning to the floor and the box out doesn't affect the shoot. You are going to pass because it doesn't affect the shot?

Rookie, I am referring to the OP of the TAP on the LEG, period. You're talking apples and oranges.

Let me ask you something. A1 attempts a 3-pointer, B1 comes in blocks the shot but his momentum carries him and his arm into A1 before A1 returns to the floor and knocks A1 to the floor, what do you have? Furthermore, when the coach asks you, did the player block the shot first, which the answer is yes, and continues to state if it didn't affect his shot why are we shooting 3, what do you answer? This is the exact same play that happened to me in a region tourney game last night. So it's the same concept as your play, and as you can see, I had foul. BTW, me not being quick on my feet with a response it took me the 2nd of 3 free throws to answer his question.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That is completely different than what you stated in your other post. In the post where I disagreed with you, you stated that you wouldn't call a tap that DID affect the shooter. There's one heckuva big difference between the two situations...as in night and day.

Contact that affects a shooter is a foul. Always. Contact that doesn't affect the shooter is incidental contact.

That little simple tap on the leg, that is probably done to distract the shooter is no more a foul as is having a hand in the face to distract the shooter. I guess I was moreless trying to convey is if it affects the shooter "mentally", that's his problem, not mine, and I'm not bailing him out.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Guy goes to block a shot, but the shooter is able to move mostly around him, defender ends up missing the ball and getting a light tap or brush on the arm or shoulder. This happens all the time. It doesn't affect the shot.

A tap on the shooting arm never affects the shot? Sorry, Skippy, but I ain't gonna buy that one.

There's little taps in certain places that can throw a shooter completely off. That usually includes any tap, no matter how light, on the shooting arm if the tap happens while the ball is being released. A light tap on the shooter's elbow can put the shot in the stands. That's the oldest trick in the book too.

And....if the tap is in a spot where it can break the shooter's concentration, and it does so imo, then I'll call the foul. If it doesn't, also imo, I won't.

It doesn't take much contact either on an airborne shooter to put him on his azz. Just brushing him on the way by will do it. You can't judge whether it's a foul or not by trying to factor in the severity of the contact.

Jmo.....soooooo.....I guess we disagree.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Rookie, I am referring to the OP of the TAP on the LEG, period. You're talking apples and oranges.

Let me ask you something. A1 attempts a 3-pointer, B1 comes in blocks the shot but his momentum carries him and his arm into A1 before A1 returns to the floor and knocks A1 to the floor, what do you have? I have a foul in this situation too!! Furthermore, when the coach asks you, did the player block the shot first, which the answer is yes, agree and continues to state if it didn't affect his shot why are we shooting 3, what do you answer? Coach, I would have given you the same call on the other end. This is the exact same play that happened to me in a region tourney game last night. So it's the same concept as your play, and as you can see, I had foul. BTW, me not being quick on my feet with a response it took me the 2nd of 3 free throws to answer his question.

Look, the point I'm trying to make is That little TAP may not be important to us as official(s). But, it can have an affect of the shooter.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

That little simple tap on the leg, that is probably done to distract the shooter is no more a foul as is having a hand in the face to distract the shooter.

If the hand in the face contacts the shooter, are you still saying that no foul has occurred? A tap on the face certainly might just distract the shooter a tetch also.

Sorry, but any contact by a defender that was deliberately done to distract the shooter, and the tap attained it's goal, is a foul. If the tap actually distracted the shooter, the defender is gaining an unfair advantage that was never intended by the rules.

Sorry, but using contact to distract a shooter is a foul. Always has been. Always will be.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the hand in the face contacts the shooter, are you still saying that no foul has occurred? A tap on the face certainly might just distract the shooter a tetch also.

Sorry, but any contact by a defender that was deliberately done to distract the shooter, and the tap attained it's goal, is a foul. If the tap actually distracted the shooter, the defender is gaining an unfair advantage that was never intended by the rules.

Sorry, but using contact to distract a shooter is a foul. Always has been. Always will be.

So out of curiousity, when you report the foul in the OP, are you giving the "clipping" signal??

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sycophant.

Sackosh1t.