School Not Allowing a Woman Official

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

If *your* beliefs get in the way of *my* rights then we have a problem. You can agree with that, no?

Not necessarily. Depends on what your "rights" are or what you want them to be. Seems to be a broad continuum in the rights argument. Everyone wants to define what their own rights are but the courts might decide differently and usually redefines this daily whether it be related to job opportunities or not. I believe I have the "right" to freely practice my beliefs. If it interferes with YOUR rights, whose right will triumph?

BTW, I have a female official as a partner tonight and she is the R, a position of authority over me. I have no problem with that.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

Not necessarily. Depends on what your "rights" are or what you want them to be. Seems to be a broad continuum in the rights argument.

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

Dan, we don't have a right not to be discriminated against.

We have a right not to be discriminated against in certain employment situations and by certain government entities or government-supported entities.

But nowhere do we have a right not to be discriminated against.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

The United States of America - where we have the privelege of deciding who we hire for Church or religious-related positions based soley on our religious beliefs. That's not discrimination. The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.

Maybe. It doesn't make any difference to my point anyway. These clowns are lower than whale sh!t, whether they can legally get away with it or not.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The United States of America - where we have the privelege of deciding who we hire for Church or religious-related positions based soley on our religious beliefs. That's not discrimination. The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.

I guess you're missing the point I was making in that post, which was that this is a CLEAR case of gender discrimination, not a fuzzy boundary where we need to figure out where your rights end and mine begin. And I know you're not sayng that the hiring of a game official is the same as who they hire for a religious-related position.

If you're saying she is exempt from protection under equal rights laws because she's a contractor... I'm pretty sure I disagree. There have been many cases where corporations have been forced by the government to show they let subcontracts on an equal opportunity basis, which is entirely different from how they hire employees. I know this first hand. We agree that a church is not a corporation... but the government has control over even churches based on the amount of federal money they get. But taken to the extreme, it is simply not true that a religious group can do whatever they wish. Ask the mormons.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

but the government has control over even churches based on the amount of federal money they get.

What church receives "federal money?" Our church would like to build a family life center with a gym. Some federal assistance would be great!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

What church receives "federal money?" Our church would like to build a family life center with a gym. Some federal assistance would be great!

Then we agree that this is a clear case of gender discrimination and could possibly be prosecuted under the existing laws, regardless of what money flows where.

btw...

http://www.religionandsocialpolicy.o...date.cfm?id=16

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Then we agree that this is a clear case of gender discrimination and could possibly be prosecuted under the existing laws, regardless of what money flows where.

No, we do not. I simply asked questions that you refused to answer.

If I choose, I can open a golf course and country club, choose not to allow women to join and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. I can choose not to hire any Italians to work at my club strictly because they're Italian and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. I can choose to only hire big breeated women as waitresses and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

She's an independent contractor. The school has not broken any laws by refusing to hire her.

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

I live in the United States of America, thank you very much, and the courts here in the United States of America MAY regard, in this situation, a greater weight to a group's RIGHT to practice their religious beliefs over a person's basic RIGHT as you've described it. I don't believe this is CLEARLY a slam dunk.

BTW, the Catholic Church does not allow women employment as a priest. Does this mean none of you here displaying all this indignation never step foot in a Catholic Church? I'd say the compensation from that job is a bit more than $35 for a night's work.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

I live in the United States of America, thank you very much, and the courts here in the United States of America MAY regard, in this situation, a greater weight to a group's RIGHT to practice their religious beliefs over a person's basic RIGHT as you've described it. I don't believe this is CLEARLY a slam dunk.

This is CLEARLY gender discrimination. But if you seperate your tolerance for religious kooks from the facts then you'll see that as well.

How the courts decide is outside of my ability to predict.

BTW, the Catholic Church does not allow women employment as a priest. Does this mean none of you here displaying all this indignation never step foot in a Catholic Church? I'd say the compensation from that job is a bit more than $35 for a night's work.

So you're equating a game official with a RC priest?

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

This is CLEARLY gender discrimination. But if you seperate your tolerance for religious kooks from the facts then you'll see that as well.

How the courts decide is outside of my ability to predict.



So you're equating a game official with a RC priest?

Um, yeah. They are both denied employment based on gender at a religious institution. One is simply on a much larger scale than the other but the same principle.

[rockyroad]

I'm not really sure how this all got compared to the KKK (but I'm thinking our buddy who's going straight to hell might have had something to do with that), but since the comparison was made...the KKK, as a PRIVATE group can deny membership and employment based on racial, gender, religious, sexual-orientation, etc. basis - if they choose to. This school, as a PRIVATE group, can do the same. The fact that this does not fit your worldview (or mine for that matter) doesn't change those facts - and denying that private group the ability to do so would be every bit as wrong as you are saying the school was.

Editorial note: I disagree strenously with what the school did, but (as I said in an earlier post) in the rush to defend "diversity",we often trample all over other people's diverse views that don't fit our defintions of what is acceptable diversity.

IOW...word.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I'm not really sure how this all got compared to the KKK (but I'm thinking our buddy who's going straight to hell might have had something to do with that), but since the comparison was made...the KKK, as a PRIVATE group can deny membership and employment based on racial, gender, religious, sexual-orientation, etc. basis - if they choose to. This school, as a PRIVATE group, can do the same. The fact that this does not fit your worldview (or mine for that matter) doesn't change those facts - and denying that private group the ability to do so would be every bit as wrong as you are saying the school was.

Editorial note: I disagree strenously with what the school did, but (as I said in an earlier post) in the rush to defend "diversity",we often trample all over other people's diverse views that don't fit our defintions of what is acceptable diversity.

IOW...word.

Exactly.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

Um, yeah. They are both denied employment based on gender at a religious institution. One is simply on a much larger scale than the other but the same principle.

I see.

As I already said I'm having difficulty embracing stupidity today so I'll just get out now.