School Not Allowing a Woman Official

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by deecee

Adolf Hitler and a bunch-o-people called the nazi's had what you would call a set of beliefs that they adhered to. And like you say, they didnt consider it "hate", and many parents accepted it and so did many kids, and adults. I dont think just NOT sending your kids there is enough.

This is not about whos flying sphagehitti monster is right or wrong, but open discrimination. No matter what your beliefs there are basic rights and wrongs that *should* be recognized by all groups. This one, apparently, is wrong.

Ah, the obligatory Hitler reference. I'm sure St. Mary's is spawning the next Adolph himself.

It is not open discrimination to them according to their beliefs. And, as a private organization, they make the rules in that case. I believe the First Amendment as freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion but I realize not all hold that interpretation. If the court wants to intervene in this case and settle that interpretation for this specific instance, send your money to the ACLU and they might take it up.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

It is not open discrimination to them according to their beliefs.

If *your* beliefs get in the way of *my* rights then we have a problem. You can agree with that, no?

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

If *your* beliefs get in the way of *my* rights then we have a problem. You can agree with that, no?

Not necessarily. Depends on what your "rights" are or what you want them to be. Seems to be a broad continuum in the rights argument. Everyone wants to define what their own rights are but the courts might decide differently and usually redefines this daily whether it be related to job opportunities or not. I believe I have the "right" to freely practice my beliefs. If it interferes with YOUR rights, whose right will triumph?

BTW, I have a female official as a partner tonight and she is the R, a position of authority over me. I have no problem with that.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

Not necessarily. Depends on what your "rights" are or what you want them to be. Seems to be a broad continuum in the rights argument.

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

Dan, we don't have a right not to be discriminated against.

We have a right not to be discriminated against in certain employment situations and by certain government entities or government-supported entities.

But nowhere do we have a right not to be discriminated against.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

The United States of America - where we have the privelege of deciding who we hire for Church or religious-related positions based soley on our religious beliefs. That's not discrimination. The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.

Maybe. It doesn't make any difference to my point anyway. These clowns are lower than whale sh!t, whether they can legally get away with it or not.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The United States of America - where we have the privelege of deciding who we hire for Church or religious-related positions based soley on our religious beliefs. That's not discrimination. The government can not do that, but this private school can - whether we like it or not. For the record, I don't like it, but that's neither here nor there - the fact remains that they can do what they did.

I guess you're missing the point I was making in that post, which was that this is a CLEAR case of gender discrimination, not a fuzzy boundary where we need to figure out where your rights end and mine begin. And I know you're not sayng that the hiring of a game official is the same as who they hire for a religious-related position.

If you're saying she is exempt from protection under equal rights laws because she's a contractor... I'm pretty sure I disagree. There have been many cases where corporations have been forced by the government to show they let subcontracts on an equal opportunity basis, which is entirely different from how they hire employees. I know this first hand. We agree that a church is not a corporation... but the government has control over even churches based on the amount of federal money they get. But taken to the extreme, it is simply not true that a religious group can do whatever they wish. Ask the mormons.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

but the government has control over even churches based on the amount of federal money they get.

What church receives "federal money?" Our church would like to build a family life center with a gym. Some federal assistance would be great!

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm having a difficult time embracing stupidity today, so pls bear with me...

In THIS particular case CLEARLY (pls tell me this is clear to you...) this group has discriminated against an individual based on nothing but gender. In what country do you live where a group's religious belief trumps a person's basic right to not endure discrimination based on gender? (I am still assuming you agree this might be a basic right... maybe not, you tell me.)

I live in the United States of America, thank you very much, and the courts here in the United States of America MAY regard, in this situation, a greater weight to a group's RIGHT to practice their religious beliefs over a person's basic RIGHT as you've described it. I don't believe this is CLEARLY a slam dunk.

BTW, the Catholic Church does not allow women employment as a priest. Does this mean none of you here displaying all this indignation never step foot in a Catholic Church? I'd say the compensation from that job is a bit more than $35 for a night's work.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

I live in the United States of America, thank you very much, and the courts here in the United States of America MAY regard, in this situation, a greater weight to a group's RIGHT to practice their religious beliefs over a person's basic RIGHT as you've described it. I don't believe this is CLEARLY a slam dunk.

This is CLEARLY gender discrimination. But if you seperate your tolerance for religious kooks from the facts then you'll see that as well.

How the courts decide is outside of my ability to predict.

BTW, the Catholic Church does not allow women employment as a priest. Does this mean none of you here displaying all this indignation never step foot in a Catholic Church? I'd say the compensation from that job is a bit more than $35 for a night's work.

So you're equating a game official with a RC priest?

[Rizzo21]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

This is CLEARLY gender discrimination. But if you seperate your tolerance for religious kooks from the facts then you'll see that as well.

How the courts decide is outside of my ability to predict.



So you're equating a game official with a RC priest?

Um, yeah. They are both denied employment based on gender at a religious institution. One is simply on a much larger scale than the other but the same principle.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

This is CLEARLY gender discrimination.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

How the courts decide is outside of my ability to predict.

And discrimination itself is not illegal. As others have said, it is only illegal in certain contexts. As dispicible as this situation is (and I'd have walked off the court with her as her partners did), it is probably within the rights of a religous organization (which they are) to do exactly what they did.