Inadvertant whistle

[fullor30]

Loose ball in A's frontcourt after A lost it...........several touches by both teams, Ref toots inadvertantly. Go with AP?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

fullor30:

I am going to rephrase your play, if I get it wrong let me know.

A1 has player control of the ball in Team A's front court. A1 loses player control of the ball, but Team A has not lost team control of the ball. The ball is being batted around by players from both teams when there is an inadvertant whistle. Which team gets the ball? As yourself the following question: Was there team control at the time of the inadvertant whistle?

Remember, if Team A does not have control of the ball, it gains control of the ball when a player on its team gains player control of the ball. Once a Team A player gains player control of the ball, it loses control only under the following conditions:


1) A1 (player in control of the ball) releases the ball for a field goal attempt or a free throw attempt.

2) A player from Team B gains player control of the ball.

3) The ball becomes dead.


So to answer your question, Team A had control of the ball at the time of the inadvertant whistle. Team A shall receive the ball for a designated throw-in nearest the spot of the ball at the time of the inadvertant whistle. Team A's throin is not an AP Throw-in.

MTD, Sr.

[jdw3018]

To add to what Mark said, if a player for Team B at some point possessed the ball and then lost it and more scrambling followed, it would then be B's ball after the IW.

There is no scenario after team control has been established where a "scrum" for a loose ball would go to the AP until something has happened to end team control.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Loose ball in A's frontcourt after A lost it...........several touches by both teams, Ref toots inadvertantly. Go with AP?

Define "loose ball". That's not a "rule book" term (for FED or NCAA).

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Define "loose ball". That's not a "rule book" term (for FED or NCAA).

Any ball that is not in player control while the ball is live and is not a try or tap?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Any ball that is not in player control while the ball is live and is not a try or tap?

If that's the definition, then there's not enough information to answer the question.

[Jurassic Referee]

Fwiw......

NFHS rule 4-12-4--"While the ball remains live, a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it it is a try or tap for goal."

If no one else established player and thus team control after A lost the ball, then it's A's ball at the POI.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Define "loose ball". That's not a "rule book" term (for FED or NCAA).

See JR's subsequent post.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by fullor30

See JR's subsequent post.

My subsequent post was a little hazy. It possibly assumed something that it shouldn't have.

The rule is clear as to what a loose ball is and who has player control(if any) of that loose ball. What isn't clear in the OP is how the ball became loose--i.e. how team A lost it.

On a IW, you go to the POI. If the ball became loose as a result of a try, and subsequently neither team established control before the IW, then the POI is an AP. If it came loose by any other means, and subsequently neither team established control before the IW, then the POI is an a throw-in to team A.

Without knowing how the ball became "loose", you can't answer the question. I think that's what Bob was pointing out. I know that Bob knows the correct way to rule on the play.

Hope that makes it a little clearer.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

My subsequent post was a little hazy. It possibly assumed something that it shouldn't have.

The rule is clear as to what a loose ball is and who has player control(if any) of that loose ball. What isn't clear in the OP is how the ball became loose--i.e. how team A lost it.

On a IW, you go to the POI. If the ball became loose as a result of a try, and subsequently neither team established control before the IW, then the POI is an AP. If it came loose by any other means, and subsequently neither team established control before the IW, then the POI is an AP.

Without knowing how the ball became "loose", you can't answer the question. I think that's what Bob was pointing out. I know that Bob knows the correct way to rule on the play.

Hope that makes it a little clearer.

More or less correct. I was trying to get fullor30 to ask a "referee" question (which would make the answer obvious to him, I think) instead of a "fan" question.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More or less correct. I was trying to get fullor30 to ask a "referee" question (which would make the answer obvious to him, I think) instead of a "fan" question.

That's kinda what I was assuming.

Note that I had to go back and edit my previous post because I screwed up the ruling too. If it wasn't a try, team gets a throw-in per POI. I put an AP down instead for some stoopid reason.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Loose ball in A's frontcourt after A lost it,several touches by both teams, Ref toots inadvertantly. Go with AP?

Now if this had happened immediately after a botched throwin????

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Now if this had happened immediately after a botched throwin????

Throw-in ended. Team control was never gained by either team. Go to the AP as per 4-36-2(c).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Throw-in ended. Team control was never gained by either team. Go to the AP as per 4-36-2(c).

Maybe that's what the original poster meant ??????

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More or less correct. I was trying to get fullor30 to ask a "referee" question (which would make the answer obvious to him, I think) instead of a "fan" question.

I assumed by the word lost, it didn't imply a try. You're correct, I should use ref terminology to get point across as not to cause confusion.