Where is the whistle?

[soundedlikeastrike]

HS rules, adult league, "the late game":

This is a very competitive league, with some former Juco players and the rest at least with HS experience. Just so's ya know, I was celebrating my 49th BD that night and was going off on em, it was like throwing it in the ocean, couldn't miss, having a great time, good close game.

Two very seasoned Ref's, one a state HS playoff selectee many times, finals participant last year, the other a he's been ref-n for at least 15 yrs.

Team down by 6, with 2:30 left in regulation, the trailing team will send the leading team to the line, pretty widely accepted practice.

Team trailing is scrambling, hacking, grabbing and fouling, in the intentional, "non-intentional sense" but no whistle/s?

Offense is getting "mugged" and tempers are escalating?

What gives?

This crew called a very tight, maybe even leaning towards "ticky tack" game for over 3/4's of a game, then, poof, they seem to dissapear?

Is there an unwritten rule that, when a team is attempting to stop the clock by fouling, it must be a blood letting?

One of the ref's even stated during live ball action on a pretty good collision between D and O player, with no whistle by the way, "don't get hurt now, you gotta work tomorrow".

At this point I went off (I am the coach and team captain) and yes a player as well. We finally get a dead ball and line up for the FT's I give em an a--chewing, "yes, we do have to work tomorrow, and those fouls your seeing out there, you know the ones you were whistling earlier, that were half that hard, call em, your losing control here, lets go".

I like to believe my "many" years of whine free play, got me off the hook, as no T followed. Yes, I made an official complaint to the assigning body.

So which is it, they wanted to go home, or...?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

So which is it, they wanted to go home, or...?

While I wasn't there, your beliefs about the change in officiating may be valid.

Sorry, dude.

[Jurassic Referee]

As I've done many, many times, I'd bet Lark's left one that you'd get a completely different story from the officials who did that game. And Larks still has his left one(I think).

Sorry, but I don't believe anything when I see these "mean ol' referees" stories posted, especially when they come out of rec leagues( and from rec league warriors).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

While I wasn't there, your beliefs about the change in officiating may be valid.

Sorry, dude.

And they may also be nonsense. That's why you shouldn't say "sorry,dude" until you hear both sides. I've heard a ton of this type of complaint over the years. I'm always amazed at how different the stories usually are when you finally hear what the officials have to say. Sometimes you wonder if the same game was involved.

It's just me, but I always give any benefit of the doubt to the officials until I hear their side or maybe reports from neutral watchers.

[Coach Bill]

I had a similar thing happen in a game a few years ago. Late in the game we're trying to foul. My kid "goes for the ball" and whacks the other team's player across the arm. No call. Couple more dribbles, whacks the kid again. Blatantly obvious and loud. No call. Pushes the kid in the back. Whistle. Intentional foul. Two shots and the ball for the other team. Thanks ref!

I think it was a point of emphasis for the refs recently to get this right and recognize the valid strategy involved as long as it's done the right way. Anyway, 99% of the refs recognize what you're doing and blow the whistle immediately on any contact, which I prefer.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Point well taken, but still doesn't answer the ?

Let's pretend, which you seem to be quite capable of, I am uncannily honest and objective in my enquiry.

I ask because as the "calming force" out there, I do control my team, and it is appreciated by all Ref's, they know me on a first name basis and have for many, many, years, I umpire with one of them, and umpire the other, and yes, he'll pay for his transgressions come spring time ;') I here every night, (I only play three nights a week) when you gonna come work for us?
We have no, none, zip, nada lack of respect underlying here. I'd simply like to know.

Would a referee, actually admit, in person, on the court, "oh yeah we're calling it different now"? Of course not. But here on a proffesional board that lends some great insights into the behind the scenes preachings/teachings? Come on.

So, is there inside guidance too let em go at the end?

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

One of the ref's even stated during live ball action on a pretty good collision between D and O player, with no whistle by the way, "don't get hurt now, you gotta work tomorrow".

At this point I went off (I am the coach and team captain) and yes a player as well. We finally get a dead ball and line up for the FT's I give em an a--chewing, "yes, we do have to work tomorrow, and those fouls your seeing out there, you know the ones you were whistling earlier, that were half that hard, call em, your losing control here, lets go".

"you guys have to go to work right now. Blow your &^*%&-in' whistle!!"

Whack-tacular!

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Would a referee, actually admit, in person, on the court, "oh yeah we're calling it different now"? Of course not. But here on a proffesional board that lends some great insights into the behind the scenes preachings/teachings? Come on.

So, is there inside guidance too let em go at the end?

.. that a lot of officials want the game to be decided by the players. That that is an overriding concern. They balance this with the way that they have called a game to that point. They don't want to call a different game and they want the players to decide the game. Ponder that one. Therein lies the challenge for the officials. So you say you have a top-notch official. Sounds like you have just learned how he balances those two potentially differing goals.

Officals want to anticipate fouls when the strategy dictates fouling, and they want to call the first one so that things don't escalate unnecessarily.

Coach Bill's: I had a similar thing happen in a game a few years ago. Late in the game we're trying to foul. My kid "goes for the ball" and whacks the other team's player across the arm. No call. Couple more dribbles, whacks the kid again. Blatantly obvious and loud. No call. Pushes the kid in the back. Whistle. Intentional foul. Two shots and the ball for the other team. Thanks ref!

Sounds like WORST CASE SCENARIO to me.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

So which is it, they wanted to go home, or...?

I vote for "or".

No team with half a brain would start fouling 6 down with 2:30 left. Not even a men's rec league team.

[Overnbach]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

.. (I think) that a lot of officials want the game to be decided by the players.

Are you guys and gals going to let this go? This fanboy hates to hear this kind of talk. Certainly the game should be decided by the players. And those players should play within the rules. Officials officiate, players play.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

At this point I went off (I am the coach and team captain) and yes a player as well. We finally get a dead ball and line up for the FT's I give em an a--chewing, "yes, we do have to work tomorrow, and those fouls your seeing out there, you know the ones you were whistling earlier, that were half that hard, call em, your losing control here, lets go".

"your losing control" line is bull$hit.

You're the coach/captain, you're the one who controls your players.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Overnbach

Are you guys and gals going to let this go? This fanboy hates to hear this kind of talk. Certainly the game should be decided by the players. And those players should play within the rules. Officials officiate, players play.

You have to make allowances for rookies.

Your point is well taken.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"your losing control" line is bull$hit.

You're the coach/captain, you're the one who controls your players.

Coming from players, the phrase "You're losing control" when translated usually means "Call fouls on the other team".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I vote for "or".

No team with half a brain would start fouling 6 down with 2:30 left. Not even a men's rec league team.

That was my first thought, too. Sometimes, if a team "starts fouling" earlier than I expect, I miss the first one.

Also, if the team that's ahead is playing "keep away" and the contact doesn't stop them from doing so (and I don't really mean that literally), then I might pass -- the contact does not equal a foul.

So, to the OP -- rather than your rant at the official, perhaps just letting him know that you were changing your strategy would help -- e.g., yell, "foul him" at your player.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Anyway, 99% of the refs recognize what you're doing and blow the whistle immediately on any contact, which I prefer.

Coach Bill,
That can deter normal defending.

Star player with 4 fouls is playing good defense and tacky touches the offense late in the game. You don't really want that called, methinks.