Too Many "T's"?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

He is the cause of the result. If he wants a different result, he needs to make a change in something. Or he can make the decision that all of his T's this year were warranted and there is nothing he could have done differently. Either way, there is no fault. We all have to draw our own conclusions. I hope Terrapin Fan at least tries something different. If he doesn't, no big deal.

This is how officials that do their job and might hand out 10-20 T's in a year when their average association member has 0-3 question themselves. Hey I have probably had about 10-15 this year and I treat them all like any call. I just blow the whistle and make the signal. The cause of the result is the act that got the T not the official calling the T. Unless hes overjudicious then yeah, and we all have worked with these types of officials, however they dont think about their T's. They also dont advance very far.

So to summarize, stop blaming yourself for doing your job. I actually get more upset when I see officials just let stuff slide because "Bob is just being Bob." or they know the coach or player and make excuses for them. Be professional and do your job. Dont get personal feelings involved in this. We are, afterall, impartial.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

How is he the cause of the coach's actions?

Why isn't the coach responsible for their own actions?

Take a breath. They are both responsible. TF is not wrong for giving a T. However, if he had more credibility with what appears to be a lot of the coaches and players he deals with, he would not have as many situations where he has to give T's.

Bottom line: If I blow a call, I will give rope to the folks affected. When I'm honest with them, almost every time the issue is over with no personal comments, and it ends there. If something is a 50/50 call, the same approach yields the same results for me. Being honest and non-defensive with players and coaches works for me. Then when I do have something nailed, I have the credibility to tell them I nailed it, and it stops there.

More priest, less prison warden. That approach works for me. It's not for everyone. TP and others can decide for themselves. I respect everyone's approaches and philosophies.

[Adam]

You know, Old School used to contradict himself within a post.

I'm just saying.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Bottom line: If I blow a call, I will give rope to the folks affected. When I'm honest with them, almost every time the issue is over with no personal comments, and it ends there. If something is a 50/50 call, the same approach yields the same results for me.

And anyone who buys this line might be interested in the beautiful beachfront property I"ve got for sale cheap in Oklahoma.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Take a breath.

I'm breathing pretty normally, thanks.

I don't entirely disagree with your theory that the more an official screws up, the more likely he/she will have coaches and players upset with them.

However, no matter how many times I mess up, it doesn't give a coach or a player the right to cross the line into unsporting behavior. They can disagree with my calls, but they can't accuse me of cheating. They might dislike the fact that I'm too old and slow to get in proper position to make the right calls, but that doesn't give them the right to yell and scream about it.

Justifying a coach or player's bad behavior by blaming it on the official is wrong.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

And anyone who buys this line might be interested in the beautiful beachfront property I"ve got for sale cheap in Oklahoma.

How much?

Oh...never mind.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

How much?

Oh...never mind.

Exactly.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm breathing pretty normally, thanks.

I don't entirely disagree with your theory that the more an official screws up, the more likely he/she will have coaches and players upset with them.

However, no matter how many times I mess up, it doesn't give a coach or a player the right to cross the line into unsporting behavior. They can disagree with my calls, but they can't accuse me of cheating. They might dislike the fact that I'm too old and slow to get in proper position to make the right calls, but that doesn't give them the right to yell and scream about it.

Justifying a coach or player's bad behavior by blaming it on the official is wrong.

I agree with you 100%. You are taking my philosophy and extrapolating to an extreme to try and make a point, but we are in violent agreement. My whole point is that there are tools to prevent coaches and players venturing into unsporting behavior. I have found it is much easier to stop a coach from going there than a player, but once a coach gets there it can get ugly. Once anyone gets there, you are correct, you have to deal with it. Virtually all T's I call are when there is physical contact on a dead ball, and every time I have to call that, I always try and figure out if there was any precursor I missed that could have prevented it. That's how I try to get better.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

I agree with you 100%. You are taking my philosophy and extrapolating to an extreme to try and make a point, but we are in violent agreement. My whole point is that there are tools to prevent coaches and players venturing into unsporting behavior. I have found it is much easier to stop a coach from going there than a player, but once a coach gets there it can get ugly. Once anyone gets there, you are correct, you have to deal with it. Virtually all T's I call are when there is physical contact on a dead ball, and every time I have to call that, I always try and figure out if there was any precursor I missed that could have prevented it. That's how I try to get better.

So how many "dead ball altercations" do you have? because virtually none of my T's are for that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. Folks get T'ed for violating the 3 P's: personal, profane, or prolonged. No matter how bad my calls are, participants are not thereby justified in violating the 3 P's.

I haven't been in the forums that much lately but I see people are still, for some reason, taking Old School's....errrrr, I mean TheOracle's posts seriously.

[TheOracle]

Probably 4-5 per year, so every 5-10 games or so. Little shove, little push, stcking a ball in someone's face. Something unnecessary and has the potential to escalate. Have to get those. Usually happens when calling official turns and heads to report.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

He is the cause of the result. If he wants a different result, he needs to make a change in something. Or he can make the decision that all of his T's this year were warranted and there is nothing he could have done differently. Either way, there is no fault. We all have to draw our own conclusions. I hope Terrapin Fan at least tries something different. If he doesn't, no big deal.

This is the most "Ts'" I have given out in one year. That was my concern. Now, I work every night 6 nights a week. One week I had 14 games ( some triples and several doubles. I work all levels, but mostly JV and V.

I do believe that the kids and the coaches are being more disrespectful. JMO.

Thanks for all the great advice and opinions.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

...I work every night 6 nights a week.

I tried to work this out and almost cramped up! Is this more Oracle/Old School math?
Congrats to everyone who keeps track of and worries about how many Ts they give out a year. Players, Coaches and game opponents change every year. It would be idiotic for me to think the amount of Ts I call could remain close to the same. One thing that does remain the same is the fact that any coach, player or partner who knows me knows that I don't care about calling a T. By not caring I mean that it will not hurt my feelings one bit to put air in the whistle and form the T with my hands. I don't cause someone to get a T no more than I cause someone to foul or miss a shot.

[kblehman]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

9.
5 in December.
2 January.
2 so far in February ( 3 games )

Am I thin skinned? I don't think so. But 9 "T's" that seems to be a lot.

Wow, I must be an anomoly.
Been working for 25 months, 295 games, no T's.

[kblehman]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Folks get T'ed for violating the 3 P's: personal, profane, or prolonged. No matter how bad my calls are, participants are not thereby justified in violating the 3 P's.

Regarding T's for profanity, are there any unofficial guidelines? Is it just the F-bomb, or does G-D and the S-word qualify as well? And does it have to be a loud outburst, or does a kid who, for example, says "s**t" or "damn!" to himself for missing a layup, qualify for a T?