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-   -   AP question (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/41499-ap-question.html)

rainmaker Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
But it was never passed. Definition states a passed ball has to be touched for the throwin to end.
But it doesn't have to be passed. A passed ball has to be touched, but the ball doesn't have to be passed.

Adam Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:10pm
Look at the definition of the throwin; specifically how it ends.

rainmaker Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Look at the definition of the throwin; specifically how it ends.
Yup, but then look at case 7.6.3 Sitch A. If the throw-in hadn-t ended, why would the basket count?

I guess they're defining a pass to include reaching the ball through the plane??

SamIAm Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
I was simply refuting your claim that by definition taking the ball away from the inbounder when they hold it on the inbounds side of the line is always a held ball. I am assuming, based on the previous rule citation, even though the ball is slapped out of the inbounder's hand and play goes on from there, the arrow is not reversed because the thrower never released the ball, and therefore the throw-in never ended. Seems weird, but that's how it seems to play out.
Semantics, but I didn't claim, I questioned.

7.6.4 SITUATION F: Thrower A1 inadvertently holds the ball through the end-line plane during a throw-in. B1 is able to get his/her hands on the ball and A1 cannot pull it back.

The case play does not say A1 and B1 are in a tug-of-war but I think it assumes it. It could occurr where the ball is cleanly snatched from A1, yet B1 got their hands on the ball and A1 could not pull it back (meeting the terms of 7.6.4).

Adam Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Yup, but then look at case 7.6.3 Sitch A. If the throw-in hadn-t ended, why would the basket count?

I guess they're defining a pass to include reaching the ball through the plane??
Then B should get the ball on the held ball situation discussed in my OP.

bob jenkins Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Then B should get the ball on the held ball situation discussed in my OP.
Read it as "The throw in ends when the released ball is legally touched."

In the OP, the ball wasn't released.

In the revision, the ball was released (but not "voluntarily" -- that doesn't matter).

In the case play, yes, it's assuming action that would be a "held ball" if it happened during inbounds play.

rainmaker Thu Jan 31, 2008 01:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Read it as "The throw in ends when the released ball is legally touched."

In the OP, the ball wasn't released.

In the revision, the ball was released (but not "voluntarily" -- that doesn't matter).

In the case play, yes, it's assuming action that would be a "held ball" if it happened during inbounds play.
Just another example of the need for re-working the rule book.

Adam Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Read it as "The throw in ends when the released ball is legally touched."

In the OP, the ball wasn't released.

In the revision, the ball was released (but not "voluntarily" -- that doesn't matter).
This makes sense. Just wish the rule was more clear.

Jurassic Referee Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
. Just wish the rule was more clear.
What isn't clear about rule 4-42-5--"The throw-in <b>ends</b> when the <b>passed</b> ball touches....."?:confused:

You never had a "passed" ball in the play being discussed, so the throw-in never ended. Therefore, the arrow doesn't change.

Y'alls are just over-thinking this one way too much.

Adam Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:20pm
So you're saying I was right!

Word.

Jurassic Referee Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Word.
Shut up.

Word.

rainmaker Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
So you're saying I was right!

Word.
Wait a minute!! You said the ball should go to B. That's NOT right.

Adam Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Shut up.

Word.
Careful, you'll knock Dan off his perch.

rainmaker Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Careful, you'll knock Dan off his perch.
Woo-hoooo!!! ROFL!

Adam Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Wait a minute!! You said the ball should go to B. That's NOT right.
I was talking about my posts 22, 28, 31, and 33. Without the throwin ending, A should keep the arrow. If the throwin ends here without a pass, then B should keep the ball and the case book is wrong.


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