Massachusetts and Post-Game Handshake/Round 2

[ma_ref]

As the IAABO boards in MA are technically not unionized, then it is an individual decision. However it becomes tough to decide what to do based on misinformation coming out of both camps. MIAA says that tourney games are covered under their liability policy. Good, so if I get sued for the reason above, they're going to pay my attorney fees? Well they don't exactly come out and say what is covered, or who is covered, so if the s**t hits the fan, then I'm guessing good luck getting a dime from the MIAA. Does MIAA mention that their own board of directors and their coaches committee voted against the PGHS? Nope. MSBOA says all the boards are united against this. Hmmm...really? Then how do you explain the 700+ officials that enrolled directly with the MIAA. Yes, there are a few non-IAABO boards in MA that enroll individuall, but I'd be shocked if a clear majority weren't IAABO. Local IAABO boards are telling their members they'll be suspended if they stick around for a pghs. Ok, then how come there have been plenty of instances of people sticking around, and not 1 suspension (to the best of my knowledge)? I know of at least 1 board that encouraged their members to enroll directly with the MIAA.

This whole things stinks, and I agree with you that the kids are losing out. But I don't think what the refs are asking for is unreasonable. We're not asking the MIAA to park our cars and hold the front door open for us. We're asking for basic peace of mind knowing that in a worst-case-pghs scenario, we're covered legally and reasonably protected from bodily injury. Our local boards/MSBOA have failed us for not working this out in a timely fashion, and for the misinformation distributed to its members. When did our local board/MSBOA ask us how we wanted to proceed once it became apparent MIAA wasn't going to budge? Oh yeah, that's right...they didn't.

[sixer]

ma_ref, you get it. I'm not sure either side is necessarily right or wrong.

As for the comments about strength in numbers and ethics (I think someone needs to get a dictionary out and look up what that means), the assumption that because MSBOA is making a decision therefore making it "right" is not a settled issue. Perhaps the strength in numbers rests with those who disagree.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

MIAA says that tourney games are covered under their liability policy. Good, so if I get sued for the reason above, they're going to pay my attorney fees?

I believe IAABO is the training/certification body in MA. If this is the case then I doubt that even your own insurance policy (home owner, NASO, whatever) will cover you for these games since you are going against IAABO's policy & procedure.

I'm not one to usually bring up the threat of a lawsuit when discussing these things but in this case I think it's safe to say that all bets are off once you knowingly go against the advice of the body that trains you. And not just for the post game handshake.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I believe IAABO is the training/certification body in MA. If this is the case then I doubt that even your own insurance policy (home owner, NASO, whatever) will cover you for these games since you are going against IAABO's policy & procedure.

I believe you are correct. We were told that additional insurance had to be purchased through our carrier for this type of coverage. I think they had come to an agreement with the insurance company, but the coverage was never actually purchased, as the pghs issue was never fully resolved and members continue to be advised not to stick around.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I believe you are correct. We were told that additional insurance had to be purchased through our carrier for this type of coverage. I think they had come to an agreement with the insurance company, but the coverage was never actually purchased, as the pghs issue was never fully resolved and members continue to be advised not to stick around.

And what I'm saying is no sane insurance company will cover you even if you plan to not stick around for the pghs. If you work these games you're violating approved procedure and that opens you up to personal liability at ANY point in the game. I'm not a lawyer but I think any decent civil attorney can make this point and get a judgement for their client.

So to you guys who think you'll be insured...call your insurance company and ask them if they will sell you the "I am guaranteed to lose in court" policy. Ask them if they'll throw in the "I drive drunk" coverage as well.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I believe IAABO is the training/certification body in MA. If this is the case then I doubt that even your own insurance policy (home owner, NASO, whatever) will cover you for these games since you are going against IAABO's policy & procedure.

I'm not one to usually bring up the threat of a lawsuit when discussing these things but in this case I think it's safe to say that all bets are off once you knowingly go against the advice of the body that trains you. And not just for the post game handshake.

The insurance liability was resolved a while ago. IAABO went to the insurance carrier, who agreed to cover the post-game handshake for regular season games for an additional premium. The MIAA agreed to pay the additional premium, which I heard is about $1 per official. According to my board treasurer, $13 of our dues is for insurance. The MIAA said it has insurance for its tournament.

But don't let this insurance liability issue cloud the real issue. This is about power and control. The MIAA wants to run its tournaments and its games its own ways. Many officials had no problems this year staying an extra 30 seconds for the handhake. Others did as they always have...and left the gym at once.

My IAABO board has given full backing to officials -- regardless of their choice. There was no directive that we had to stay. My assignors said the same thing: the choice was mine.

It does appear that the state tournament will use 2-person crews for the early games because there are not enough qualified officials to work 3-person games until the quarter finals. Two-person is the norm for the vast majority of regular season games here, but the state tournament went to 3-person crews for all games two years ago.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

The insurance liability was resolved a while ago. IAABO went to the insurance carrier, who agreed to cover the post-game handshake for regular season games for an additional premium. The MIAA agreed to pay the additional premium, which I heard is about $1 per official. According to my board treasurer, $13 of our dues is for insurance. The MIAA said it has insurance for its tournament.

Well I just read that ma_ref thinks it has not been resolved, and it's still my opinion that any decent lawyer will rip you guys to shreds if something bad happens at any point in the game regardless of your insurance coverage or whether you planned on staying for the pghs or not.

But it's not my problem, so good luck to you all.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Well I just read that ma_ref thinks it has not been resolved, and it's still my opinion that any decent lawyer will rip you guys to shreds if something bad happens at any point in the game regardless of your insurance coverage or whether you planned on staying for the pghs or not.

But it's not my problem, so good luck to you all.

Directly from the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. letter to members of Jan. 27:
"At that meeting (Jan. 10) both liability and safety was discussed. It was determined that we would look in to purchasing insurance to resolve the liability issue (this, in fact, has been resolved)."

It is a done deal, no matter what others are saying.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Directly from the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. letter to members of Jan. 27:
"At that meeting (Jan. 10) both liability and safety was discussed. It was determined that we would look in to purchasing insurance to resolve the liability issue (this, in fact, has been resolved)."

It is a done deal, no matter what others are saying.

Good luck with that, it aint my house we're talking about.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I don't remember who said it in this thread, but he was correct when he said that the school and its adult representatives are the responsible for the conduct of its student-athletes, not the game offidials. Once the game is over and the R has approved the final score, the officials are supposed to leave the floor immediately and they should do it together. The "brainless twits" at the MIAA should read the NFHS Officials Manual or since the MIAA uses IAABO officials should read the IAABO High School Handbook. Furthermore, the "brainless twits" at the MIAA should just ask some of its peers around the country for an opinion about their stupid idea. If the MIAA wants the post-game handshake policed then it needs to mandate the schools involved provide enough adminstrator/teachers at the game to perform such a function because these are the people who are really responsible for teaching sportsmanship to student-athletes.

Any official who would stay on the cour to watch the post-game handshake is nuts. And as far as the tournament, there is no way I would accept an assignment that would require me to stay on the cour to watch the post-game handshake. Any official who does accept such an assignment is telling everybody involved that he doesn't care about his own safety or the safety of his fellow basketball officials.

MTD, Sr.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Directly from the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn. letter to members of Jan. 27:
"At that meeting (Jan. 10) both liability and safety was discussed. It was determined that we would look in to purchasing insurance to resolve the liability issue (this, in fact, has been resolved)."

It is a done deal, no matter what others are saying.

Yes that issue has been resolved, but actually purchasing the additional coverage was contingent upon resolving the other matter - security of the officials during the pghs. Since the security issue still hasn't been resolved, the extra insurance was never actually purchased, and officials working the tournament are doing so at their own risk of liability.