Way Too Many "Players" Warming Up

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gimlet:

Where in the world did you ever get the idea the Game Management is responsible for the VAR players in this situation. I am sorry,but that is just absurd to make such a statement.

MTD, Sr.

Come on MTD read the entire post. That was in response to Rainmakers post...that it doesn't matter if the dunker is a player. Its a little ABSURD to make a comment without reading the context of the entire post. (IMHO)

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

It's a team technical. Whether or not that dunk-er is a "player", he's on the floor and he's responsible to follow the rules, and the coach is responsible too, when he doesn't. If the coach doesn't like starting the game with shots by the opponent, then he can get those kids under control.

Assuming the player wasn't on the playing team (JV Team). It still begs the question what if you do allow the varsity members to warm up with the JV team and a Varsity member dunks? How would you penalize it?

I'm thinking @ that time he isn't a player for that game. He's not going to be bench personnel either. So really he's nothing more then a fan @ that time.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Assuming the player wasn't on the playing team (JV Team). It still begs the question what if you do allow the varsity members to warm up with the JV team and a Varsity member dunks? How would you penalize it?

I'm thinking @ that time he isn't a player for that game. He's not going to be bench personnel either. So really he's nothing more then a fan @ that time.

Well, the book doesn't discuss this situation, so I'm looking at it this way. Coach is responsible for warm-ups. Whoever is on the floor is there with his permission either express or implicit. If that a var player dunks before a JV game, he can't get a T (unless, like MTD recommends you add the name to the JV book), so you just make it a team T, seatbelt the coach, and take it from there. This is what I've done in the past and my commissioner said it worked for him.

I don't think you can make game management responsible. What if it's the visiting team? WHen should game management step in and tell ... who?... to get off the court, or to not dunk? And if the visiting var player does dunk during the JV warm-ups, THEN how do you penalize??? Can't penalize home game management!!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The book doesn't discuss this situation

Alright, I finally got out of my comfortable chair and got my rule book out of my bag. Here's what I found:

4-5-1: A team's own basket is the one into which its players try to throw or tap the ball.

4-5-2: Each team's basket for practice before the game and for the first half shall be the one farther from its team bench.

4-34-2: Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limnited to, substitutes, coaches, managers, and statisticians. During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

So, only those individuals who are eligible to become a player are team members, and only team members are allowed to warm up, thus, if a varsity individual is not eligible to become a player, because the coach doesn't want him to play in the junior varsity game, and/or his, or her name, is not in the junior varsity book, then the official has the right, by rule, to exclude those varsity individuals from warmups.

How does that sound?

[Gimlet25id]

I agree that if a V player dunks while the JV game is warming up that it stands to reason that we ought to penalize the BRAIN FART. That being said I don't know how in the world you can whack a non-player for the team that is going to play, add his name to the book, & penalize the coach.The varsity player isn't a team member of the JV team.

This is exactly why you shouldn't allow anyone but the team members to warm up.

Lets say for example the varsity player was suspended for a couple of games and was going to sit on the bench to help the JV squad then you could whack him as bench personnel and charge indirectly to the HC.

If its possible to rule like you have suggested could you please post the rule reference. Honestly I would like to penalize the idiot I just don't see how you can?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

Coach is responsible for warm-ups. Whoever is on the floor is there with his permission either express or implicit.

What if a fan comes out of the stands, picks up a ball and dunks it? Your whacking the coach, adding the fan to the book (just kidding), sitting the coach...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I agree that if a V player dunks while the JV game is warming up that it stands to reason that we ought to penalize the BRAIN FART.

I don't. Just get game management to get them off the court.

There...now I disagree with everybody.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I don't. Just get game management to get them off the court.

There...now I disagree with everybody.

I knew it was coming... My point was that if a VP does this then it would be nice to be able by rule to penalize it. I just don't think by rule you can and that game management would have to deal with the situation.

[Texas Aggie]

now I disagree with everybody

Surprisingly enough, not me. I agree with everything you wrote -- at least through page 2 (didn't read the rest!).

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Come on MTD read the entire post. That was in response to Rainmakers post...that it doesn't matter if the dunker is a player. Its a little ABSURD to make a comment without reading the context of the entire post. (IMHO)



Assuming the player wasn't on the playing team (JV Team). It still begs the question what if you do allow the varsity members to warm up with the JV team and a Varsity member dunks? How would you penalize it?

I'm thinking @ that time he isn't a player for that game. He's not going to be bench personnel either. So really he's nothing more then a fan @ that time.

Gimlet:

I did read the entire post. And my quesiton to you still stands. By what logic do you come to the conlusion that Game Management is resposible for the VAR players warming up with the JV players? There is no logic and you just made a statement that you thought would CYA so that you wouldn't have to earn the big bucks you are being paid to officiate the game.

MTD, Sr.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gimlet:

I did read the entire post. And my quesiton to you still stands. By what logic do you come to the conlusion that Game Management is resposible for the VAR players warming up with the JV players? There is no logic and you just made a statement that you thought would CYA so that you wouldn't have to earn the big bucks you are being paid to officiate the game.

MTD, Sr.

If we do this right, Gimlet, you and I can duck out and have a tall one while MTD and JR duke it out. Agreed?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If we do this right, Gimlet, you and I can duck out and have a tall one while MTD and JR duke it out. Agreed?

Coors works for me...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If we do this right, Gimlet, you and I can duck out and have a tall one while MTD and JR duke it out. Agreed?

Why are you leaving poor ol' Mark by his lonesome? You agree with him, don't you?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Are you going anywhere? I disagree completely with you too.

I know you do. I"m just saying, I'm gonna go look in my books, think about it and get back to you. Let MTD do the arguing. Gotta admit, agreeing with MTD doesn't feel real comfortable, and disagreeing with you doesn't either. SO I'll let ya'll figure it out, and then Gimlet and I will check back in for the Supreme COurt ruling. K?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By what logic do you come to the conlusion that Game Management is resposible for the VAR players warming up with the JV players?

I came to the samee conclusion. They ain't part of the team, as defined in 4-34. They aren't the head coach's responsibility, as per 10-4. That leaves 2-8-1NOTE--"team followers or supporters".

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Gimlet:
There is no logic and you just made a statement that you thought would CYA so that you wouldn't have to earn the big bucks you are being paid to officiate the game.

MTD, Sr.

Whatever this means.......