But, he crossed the time line

[Damian]

Working youth games this Saturday. 5th graders with mostly dads as coaches. They do a pretty good job and don't really cause any problems. I called a 5 second closely guarded while a kid was dribbling. The dad/coach shouted, "But he crossed the time line." Sure enough there was a small line around the 28 foot mark. I told him the rule had changed about 15-20 years ago. He was old school.

[grunewar]

Similar thing happened to me yesterday. After I called a five second violation and during a timeout, coach comes out and points to a red line on the court (mid way between top of key and mid-court line - I never even really noticed it) and said, doesn't he have to be behind that line to call five seconds? Huh? Heck, it might have even been a volleyball line for all I know? I explained the rule and he was fine with the call.

[Coltdoggs]

My 5 second count got questioned if it was 3 or 5 seconds....I told him 5, he said I only saw you move your arm 3 times...I said, you missed the first two then!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

My 5 second count got questioned if it was 3 or 5 seconds....I told him 5, he said I only saw you move your arm 3 times...I said, you missed the first two then!

So, the coach expects you to believe he has nothing better to do than watch your arm and see how many times you count?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by grunewar

So, the coach expects you to believe he has nothing better to do than watch your arm and see how many times you count?

In a youth league, with one coach, I wouldn't expect this. However, in HS ball, I have known coaches to assign an assistant to count the arm movements during throw-ins, closely guarded counts, and while bringing up the ball against the press, and then let the HC know when they're about to get a violation so he can call timeout.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

However, in HS ball, I have known coaches to assign an assistant to count the arm movements during throw-ins, closely guarded counts, and while bringing up the ball against the press, and then let the HC know when they're about to get a violation so he can call timeout.

And since coaches cannot call timeouts, how does this help him?

My work is never done.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

And since coaches cannot call timeouts, how does this help him?

My work is never done.

Since when can't a coach call a timeout?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Since when can't a coach call a timeout?

Since Dr. Naismith invented the game. Calling timeouts is your job.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

In a youth league, with one coach, I wouldn't expect this. However, in HS ball, I have known coaches to assign an assistant to count the arm movements during throw-ins, closely guarded counts, and while bringing up the ball against the press, and then let the HC know when they're about to get a violation so he can call timeout.

W&S - I understand, and the OP was referring to 5th graders which was my thinking......most of em ain't THAT good!

Fullor - I believe Mark constantly refers to players and coaches "requesting" or "asking" for timeouts, while referees "call' or "grant" them.....Meaning players and coaches can't "call" timeouts. At least, I believe that's where he's going....but, I could be wrong.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Fullor - I believe Mark constantly refers to players and coaches "requesting" or "asking" for timeouts, while referees "call' or "grant" them.....Meaning players and coaches can't "call" timeouts. At least, I believe that's where he's going....but, I could be wrong.

You're right as rain, buddy. And to those of you who think this is nit-picky, my point is that just because a coach yells "TIMEOUT" doesn't mean one can be granted.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

And since coaches cannot call timeouts, how does this help him?

Yes they can.

Call: To speak in a loud distinct voice so as to be heard at a distance.

If they couldn't call "time out", then the only way that we could grant a time out request would be if they gave a visual signal.

Also, the NFHS case book has at least one reference to a player "calling" time out. I beleive that it's in the section on what a player is allowed to do when they gain contol of a loose ball on the floor; sit up, pass, shot, start a dribble, or "call" a time out.

Enough already. Please stop. Most verteran officials know that there's a difference between "requesting" and being "granted" a time out, but leave the word "call" out of the discussion.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Since Dr. Naismith invented the game. Calling timeouts is your job.

Ha! caught me............I thought you forgot to mention asssitant coach.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes they can.

Call: To speak in a loud distinct voice so as to be heard at a distance.

If they couldn't call "time out", then the only way that we could grant a time out request would be if they gave a visual signal.

Also, the NFHS case book has at least one reference to a player "calling" time out. I beleive that it's in the section on what a player is allowed to do when they gain contol of a loose ball on the floor; sit up, pass, shot, start a dribble, or "call" a time out.

Enough already. Please stop. Most verteran officials know that there's a difference between "requesting" and being "granted" a time out, but leave the word "call" out of the discussion.

Ha........removes some egg from my face.

This board works on semantics quite often.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Since Dr. Naismith invented the game. Calling timeouts is your job.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. "Granting" timeout requests is our job.

Also, Dr. Naismith made no mention of officials calling time outs in his original thirteen rules. the only reference to time is:

12. The time shall be two 15-minute halves, with five minutes' rest between.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Damian

Working youth games this Saturday. 5th graders with mostly dads as coaches. They do a pretty good job and don't really cause any problems. I called a 5 second closely guarded while a kid was dribbling. The dad/coach shouted, "But he crossed the time line." Sure enough there was a small line around the 28 foot mark. I told him the rule had changed about 15-20 years ago. He was old school.

If it wasn't that i saw you are from TX, I'd swear you were talking about a game I was at a couple of weeks ago.

6th grade boys game, and a closely guarded violation called against us, and the coaching staff thought it was for not crossing the time line uqickly and argued that point. The ref explained it to them.

Last year, they coached our instructional team of 4th graders where most likely, the 5 second count isn't used, which probably was why it was a shock to them to see it called.