Reached through the plane and hit the...?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

JV-G Friday night. Third quarter, A1 inbounding on opposite baseline. My partner is administering and I am lead, near midcourt, as B is pressing full-court. Nearing what seems like about five seconds to me, I take a peek at my partner and the inbounder and I see what looks like the ball in A1's hands being slapped by B1, on the OOB side of the line if I had to guess. He hits the whistle then comes to me.

Here is mistake number one. He says, "I was starting to raise my hand for five seconds when she reached across." Based on that statement, he probably should've just called that violation.

Here is mistake number two. Rather than let him continue to describe what happened, I asked him, "Was the ball still OOB?" He said yes to I said technical foul. He agreed and called then reported the T. No complaints from anywhere.

After the game, we are describing it to the V officials (one of whom were evaluating me) and he says that B1 reached across and smacked A1's arm. I was surprised to hear that the contact was on the arm instead of the ball, but I realized we never covered that detail in the short conversation. Based on that, I think we should have had a foul or nothing. The only thing I wasn't sure about was if it had to be intentional. I don't think it did, but the V guys weren't sure either. They said he probably should've let it go, or called the five if that came first, but once we were in the conference it would've been tougher to go with one of those options.

If I had the whole thing over again, I suggest either the five second violation if that came first, or a common foul on B1. I do think coming out of a conference with a five-second call wouldn't look good, however.

The good news is that I got an excellent evaluation ("looks like I've been doing it 10 years") so I was pretty happy about that. I still need to slow down when calling a foul, instead of giving the preliminary signal after my first few steps toward the table. I also got my second piece of conflicting advice, which is a little frustrating. (Friday's was don't start my counts so low--he said in our chapter they want us chest-to-shoulder and I'm going waist-to-shoulder. That's annoying because I was doing chest-to-shoulder at the beginning of the year based on what the book shows, and only changed because another experienced official told me that in our chapter we go waist-to-shoulder!)

Last thing, game was V56, H52, with H shooting two shots with 2.8 seconds left. They made the first and called timeout. My coaching brain kicked in and I told my partner to expect an intentional miss and a tip back for three. We talked quickly about watching for lane violations or rebounding fouls, and that he had the last shot as the T. Sure enough, miss, clean offensive rebound, pass to the corner for a wide-open three and... clank! Game over!

[truerookie]

[quote=A Pennsylvania Coach]JV-G Friday night.
Here is mistake number one. He says, "I was starting to raise my hand for five seconds when she reached across." Starting to raising my hand raised an eyebrow for me. Shouldn't one hand already be in the air for a throw-in? All you have to do is put air in the whistle. If the defender touches the ball correct Technical. Foul thrower- in Intentional.

If I had the whole thing over again, I suggest either the five second violation if that came first, or a common foul on B1. Either five second violation; technical or intentional not a common foul

[Kelvin green]

Slapping the ball is a T...
Hitting a player OOB with the ball is an intentional foul...

The question I have is....

Had he counted to 5 or just raising his hand.

Most officials actually raise their hand after they get to 5. Some start to go up at 4 to get at thier 5th count and hand is up. (I go to 5 then raise my hand)

If he was like me the violation had occurred and he was slow in blowing whistle, it is a violation... If he went to 4 and was raisiing his hand he most likely did not get to the violation

Somone is shootong two shots and getting the ball. Depends on who can shoot and where the ball comes in. You can never go common...

[ca_rumperee]

If a defensive player on an inbounds play reached OOB and contacts the inbounding player that would be an Intentional Personal Foul. That is not to say that they intentionally fouled, just the category of foul.

Inbounding team should go to other end, shoot 2 with lane cleared, and then inbound the ball back at the original spot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

If a defensive player on an inbounds play reached OOB and contacts the inbounding player that would be an Intentional Personal Foul. That is not to say that they intentionally fouled, just the category of foul.

Inbounding team should go to other end, shoot 2 with lane cleared, and then inbound the ball back at the original spot.

That is correct. *Note that the right to run the end line is lost. I don't agree with that, but the NFHS did make that change a few years ago.

Also I agree with the poster who wrote that the administering official's hand should already be up in the air if the clock was stopped for this throw-in.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

So we got it almost right? As long as the foul happened before the five-second count expired, we should have had an intentional personal foul instead of a technical. Two shots and the ball back at the same spot, but the shooter would've had to be the player who got fouled.

Correct? Thanks to all.

[psujaye]

Along these lines, if the inbounder reaches across the OOB line and holds the ball across the OOB line to bait the defender into touching the ball, and the defender knocks the ball out of the inbounders hands, its a no call, correct? what if the defender hits the inbounders arm then? common foul?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by psujaye

Along these lines, if the inbounder reaches across the OOB line and holds the ball across the OOB line to bait the defender into touching the ball, and the defender knocks the ball out of the inbounders hands, its a no call, correct? what if the defender hits the inbounders arm then? common foul?

1) correct

2) common foul or a no-call.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Last thing, game was V56, H52, with H shooting two shots with 2.8 seconds left. They made the first and called timeout. My coaching brain kicked in and I told my partner to expect an intentional miss and a tip back for three. We talked quickly about watching for lane violations or rebounding fouls, and that he had the last shot as the T. Sure enough, miss, clean offensive rebound, pass to the corner for a wide-open three and... clank! Game over!

Wouldn't this have been Game Over even if the 3 point shot went SWISH!!!! (As long as there was no defensive foul on the play resulting in a 3 point shot and FTs to boot.)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by psujaye

Along these lines, if the inbounder reaches across the OOB line and holds the ball across the OOB line to bait the defender into touching the ball, and the defender knocks the ball out of the inbounders hands, its a no call, correct? what if the defender hits the inbounders arm then? common foul?

It's a common foul IF the defender doesn't break the plane. If the defender breaks the plane, it's an intentional foul even though the ball broke the plane.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Wouldn't this have been Game Over even if the 3 point shot went SWISH!!!! (As long as there was no defensive foul on the play resulting in a 3 point shot and FTs to boot.)

• V56, H52
• with H shooting two shots
• They made the first
• miss
• clean offensive rebound
• pass to the corner for a wide-open three and... clank!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

My bad. I misread the OP. I was thinking that it was still 56-52 AFTER the first FT had been made.

[BillyMac]

The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin, the defender’s team will receive a team warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team warning will be recorded. If the defender fouls the inbounding player after breaking the imaginary plane, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team warning will be recorded.

[hoosierref]

Just want to clarify something on this, last couple of games have had different opinions from officials.

The way I read the rule is once the ball has been passed, the defender may make contact with the ball either in or out of bounds (as long as he does not foul the offensive player). I have veterans that say this is correct they can, and others said that they can still not reach across the boundry line.

[BktBallRef]

Yes, he can reach through the plane and bat the ball after the throw-in has been released.

7-6-4
The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

9-2 Penalty 3
If an opponent(s) of the thrower reaches through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touches or dislodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line (as in 7-5-7), a technical foul shall be charged to the offender.