Q from 1st Year: Bodies on the floor under the basket.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

We got together and called a block by prone player B1 on rebounder A2 and awarded ball to A on the endline.

Read rule 4-23-1 --specifically the part that says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court providing such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."-- and let me know if you've changed your mind.

Unless A2 was in the air on the put-back and B2 moved under him, I don't see where you have rules justification to call a foul on B2. What rule did you use?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Read rule 4-23-1 --specifically the part that says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court providing such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."-- and let me know if you've changed your mind.

Unless A2 was in the air on the put-back and B2 moved under him, I don't see where you have rules justification to call a foul on B2. What rule did you use?

btw he had the foul right by ncaa interpretation. NCAA view is that a player down on the floor does not have a legitimate defensive position and is responsible for contact.

I kinda like this better than the fed interp.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

btw he had the foul right by ncaa interpretation. NCAA view is that a player down on the floor does not have a legitimate defensive position and is responsible for contact.

I kinda like this better than the fed interp.

Hmmm...this is what I was agreeing with - I got the interps mixed up. I was thinking the Fed interp was that this was a foul, and the NCAA interp was that it wasn't a foul. Thanks for the clarification.

So...in the OP - no whistle unless there's a travel?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Hmmm...this is what I was agreeing with - I got the interps mixed up. I was thinking the Fed interp was that this was a foul, and the NCAA interp was that it wasn't a foul. Thanks for the clarification.

So...in the OP - no whistle unless there's a travel?

Yep, under fed.

Or if someone's head gets stomped in and the blood makes the floor too slippery to continue. But do wait to see if there's a put back first.

edit to say the putback comment was made before I read Bob's post. great minds think alike!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

edit to say the putback comment was made before I read Bob's post. great minds think alike!

I agree also. That's two great minds and a not-so-great one.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Read rule 4-23-1 --specifically the part that says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court providing such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."-- and let me know if you've changed your mind.

Unless A2 was in the air on the put-back and B2 moved under him, I don't see where you have rules justification to call a foul on B2. What rule did you use?

Wait a second...I agree that B2 may not have illegally contacted A2 getting to his prone position on the floor in this scenario but....

Does LGP come into play on this? If B2 does not have LGP (in this case, laying on the court) and there is contact with the shooter A2 during his natural shooting motion that causes him to have contact with B2 wouldn't we have justification to call a foul on B2 for blocking? I can't very well call a PC on this cause B2 is on the floor and not in LGP...

As I'm playing this in my mind, I'm wondering if a no call or block is correct. It's really one you have to see happen but I am inclined to have a no call here if the contact between the two players is merely A2 accidentally stepping on B2....

Then that brings the question, what if A2 STOMPS on him?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Does LGP come into play on this? If B2 does not have LGP (in this case, laying on the court) and there is contact with the shooter A2 during his natural shooting motion that causes him to have contact with B2 wouldn't we have justification to call a foul on B2 for blocking? I can't very well call a PC on this cause B2 is on the floor and not in LGP...

No, LGP has got nothing to do with the call. Can a rebounder run into the back of an opponent? There's no LGP involved there either. Can a dribbler run into the back of an opponent that has taken a position with his back turned several steps in front of the dribbler? No LGP there either. Can anybody legally run into an opponent who has already taken a legal position on the court?

B2 may not have a LGP, but that doesn't mean that B2 isn't in a legal position. Under FED rules, there is no justification that I know of for calling a foul on B2 for blocking when B2 has attained a legal position on the court, even if that legal position is lying down.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, LGP has got nothing to do with the call. Can a rebounder run into the back of an opponent? There's no LGP involved there either. Can a dribbler run into the back of an opponent that has taken a position with his back turned several steps in front of the dribbler? No LGP there either. Can anybody legally run into an opponent who has already taken a legal position on the court?

B2 may not have a LGP, but that doesn't mean that B2 isn't in a legal position. Under FED rules, there is no justification that I know of for calling a foul on B2 for blocking when B2 has attained a legal position on the court, even if that legal position is lying down.

Very well worded...I see what you are saying using the rebounder running into the back of an opponent. Make perfect sense now...Let em play!

Thanks!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Wait a second...I agree that B2 may not have illegally contacted A2 getting to his prone position on the floor in this scenario but....

Does LGP come into play on this? If B2 does not have LGP (in this case, laying on the court) and there is contact with the shooter A2 during his natural shooting motion that causes him to have contact with B2 wouldn't we have justification to call a foul on B2 for blocking? I can't very well call a PC on this cause B2 is on the floor and not in LGP...

As I'm playing this in my mind, I'm wondering if a no call or block is correct. It's really one you have to see happen but I am inclined to have a no call here if the contact between the two players is merely A2 accidentally stepping on B2....

Then that brings the question, what if A2 STOMPS on him?

LGP has nothing to do with this. LGP gives the defensive player additional rights (primarily the right to move obliquely). If the defensive player isn't moving, then LGP is not an issue.

On the OP, if A2 is in a great postion for a put-back, then I let the play continue.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Then that brings the question, what if A2 STOMPS on him?

This was the question that popped into my head. I think you have to have an intentional. It can't be a technical since it's a contact foul, so that's what I would go with.