Free Throw Shooter

[Texref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

TexRef:

The NFHS rules say the same thing and all NFHS Casebook Plays and NCAA Approved Rulings are plays where there are no eligible substitutes. BUT, the play we are discussing has an eligible player sitting the bench. If you haven't read the entire thread, I suggest reading posts #5 through #30. They will give you the background as to why a team must have five (5) players on the court if they have five (5) eligible players.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

That's the thing, the sub is not an eligible player until time runs off of the clock. I understand the 5 players, but a player has to be eligible to play. In this case, the team member is not eligible until time has come off of the clock.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Texref

Mark,

That's the thing, the sub is not an eligible player until time runs off of the clock. I understand the 5 players, but a player has to be eligible to play. In this case, the team member is not eligible until time has come off of the clock.

I said the exact same thing months ago. MTD just doesn't believe that. He didn't believe it then and he doesn't believe that now. There is no use trying to convince him otherwise.

PS The NFHS book uses the same language as the NCAA book. You and I agree that the language is clear. MTD says that it is not.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS The NFHS book uses the same language as the NCAA book. You and I agree that the language is clear. MTD says that it is not.

I say that it isn't also. This particular play is not covered under either ruleset imo.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I say that it isn't also. This particular play is not covered under either ruleset imo.

What's not clear about it? The rule clearly states that if the team has 5 eligible players. In this case, the "sub" isn't eligible for the reason listed under the sub rule. Because of that, the "sub" does not meet the definition of either Team personnel or a Player. Mind you this is just temporary, but I don't think you can argue the language in the rule book can you?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Texref

What's not clear about it? The rule clearly states that if the team has 5 eligible players. In this case, the "sub" isn't eligible for the reason listed under the sub rule. Because of that, the "sub" does not meet the definition of either Team personnel or a Player. Mind you this is just temporary, but I don't think you can argue the language in the rule book can you?

The rules state that a team may not play short if it has eligible players on the bench. By definition an eligible player is a player is one who is not disqualified. The player who went out is not a disqualified player and since the rules state that a team may not play short the player must come back into the game to replace the injured player even though no time has run off the clock.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By definition an eligible player is a player is one who is not disqualified.MTD, Sr.

Mark, NFHS citation please, rule book, or case book.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Mark, NFHS citation please, rule book, or case book.

Billy,

There is no definition of eligible player. The NCAA rule book defines Bench Personnel, Team Personnel, Substitute and Team Member.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The rules state that a team may not play short if it has eligible players on the bench. By definition an eligible player is a player is one who is not disqualified. The player who went out is not a disqualified player and since the rules state that a team may not play short the player must come back into the game to replace the injured player even though no time has run off the clock.

MTD, Sr.

Mark

I gave you the definition of Player and Team Member and the shorthanded rule in my first post. The "sub" is not eligible based on the definitions given and the sub rule quoted. But, you will obviously not be convinced of that and you won't convince me so we can agree to disagree.

Meant to add this to this reply:
Edited to add the following:
After finally getting home and looking over the HS rule book, Mark you still don't have an argument to make. The HS rules do not "define" substitute the way that NCAA does. However under 3-1-1 Note: A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five...
Rule 3-3-4: A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been properly started following his/her replacement.

Now the only argument I see you having is whether this "once-in-a-lifetime" situation would fall under this rule, or the NCAA rule for that matter, or you might could argue that the famous 2-3 could, and I stress COULD, apply here.