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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 10:15pm
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overturn a call?

I'm a first year. I had an obvious call overturned once by the Ref and it was the right call and I didn't argue. He said inadvertent whistle. It wasn't a critical moment too. On this next play in a different game I was the lead. A shot attempt near the baseline which I saw as blocked but the trail calls a foul. This has a crucial moment in the game. This wasn't a behind call either when the trail might see it and the lead couldn't. He thought he saw a foul and he might have been right but it was clearly my call. The defense of course went nuts saying it wasn't a foul. Should I always support my partner on this? After the game I was thinking I could have blown my whistle right after and claimed I had a call too and called a jump ball or inadvertent whistle but then the other coach would have been upset. The game was going well and we even had fans from both sides at halftime tell us that we were doing a great job but of course all it takes is some controversy and then you have half the gym against the refs.
thinking more on this I'm sure we've all seen missed calls in NCAA, NBA but they are never overturned and I really can't think of an example I've seen when the refs talk about a foul on a shot attempt and overturn it if only one ref had the call.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 10:23pm
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I am confused as to what calls were "overturned?" Could you give an example of the actual plays? Because someone called a foul you do not think is a foul, does not mean a call is overturned. A description of the play would help anyone reading to tell you if what took place was OK or was your partner overstepping.

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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 10:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
I'm a first year. I had an obvious call overturned once by the Ref and it was the right call and I didn't argue. He said inadvertent whistle. It wasn't a critical moment too. On this next play in a different game I was the lead. A shot attempt near the baseline which I saw as blocked but the trail calls a foul. This has a crucial moment in the game. This wasn't a behind call either when the trail might see it and the lead couldn't. He thought he saw a foul and he might have been right but it was clearly my call. The defense of course went nuts saying it wasn't a foul. Should I always support my partner on this? After the game I was thinking I could have blown my whistle right after and claimed I had a call too and called a jump ball or inadvertent whistle but then the other coach would have been upset. The game was going well and we even had fans from both sides at halftime tell us that we were doing a great job but of course all it takes is some controversy and then you have half the gym against the refs.
thinking more on this I'm sure we've all seen missed calls in NCAA, NBA but they are never overturned and I really can't think of an example I've seen when the refs talk about a foul on a shot attempt and overturn it if only one ref had the call.
Never throw your partner under the bus. Yes, support him. If you wish to discuss the call, do so in private.

Foul calls are largely based on judgment. Maybe he has better judgment than you do. Maybe he has worse judgment than you do. It's just a disagreement if a foul was committed on the play. After the game was over, ask him what he saw. If the play came from your primary, and he had a whistle, ask him who was watching his primary area.

Don't start thinking about things to "reverse" a bad foul call by your partner. Just call your game, work with your P as a team does, but if he makes a bad call, then he has to live with it.

Be thankful that you and he learned something at a non-critical part of a game.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 10:26pm
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Sometimes, people have to take the heat for their own calls. Especially, if the calls were out of their area. That said, you do not throw gas on the fire or your partner under the bus. But, you do want to review the situation at half or post-game. You should not get into the habit of trying to overrule your partner
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 10:37pm
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yah thats what I figured and thats what I've been doing. We talked about it afterwards and it was agreed I had the call but I'm not someone who is an only call in my area type of ref so I wasn't upset.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 10:40pm
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If a partner is going to make such a call, he has to live or die with it. Don't compound matters by making excuses or blowing your whistle when you didn't have a call. Don't throw him under the bus by saying anything about the call to anyone but at the same time, don't tell everybody it was a great call. It's his call, let him defend it or admit it was wrong.

No official has the authority to over turn another's call.

You had a perfect right to be upset that he made the crew look terrible by blowing a call in an area he shouldn't be whistling in.
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Last edited by BktBallRef; Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:56pm.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 09:53am
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[quote=BktBallRef]

An official has the authority to over turn another's call.

I don't know about overturning. I know an official can bring information to the one making the call and allow that official to change the call if so desired.

The referee can make a final decision when officials don't agree. But, when it comes to judgement. Personally, I will not overturn for the sake of overturning.

In the OP, I see a situation where there is a lack of trust do to the OP being a first year official.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 10:12am
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BktBallRef goofed. He meant to write "No official has the authority..."
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 10:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpbreeze
yah thats what I figured and thats what I've been doing. We talked about it afterwards and it was agreed I had the call but I'm not someone who is an only call in my area type of ref so I wasn't upset.
You might not be a "only call in me area ref." But If you are fishing in someone else's pond, who is watching your fish? It's a good habit to develope to keep your focus in your primary and trust your partners to focus on their's.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
The referee can make a final decision when officials don't agree.
Say what?

The only thing that the referee can make a final decision on between officials is whether a goal counts or not if the officials disagree. In all other situations, the officials involved have to come to some kind of agreement. The referee cannot overrule either of them.

NFHS rules 2-5-3 and 2-6.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:04am
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My partner reached quite deep into my territory (I was lead and it was right in front of me) and called a foul last night. I let it go but it just reminded me that I have to make sure I don't do the same. A million thoughts can go through your head while the ball is not in your territory but I have to continually re-focus to "watch my primary" and keep my eyes from roving elsewhere (except for an occasional glance).
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Say what?

The only thing that the referee can make a final decision on between officials is whether a goal counts or not if the officials disagree. In all other situations, the officials involved have to come to some kind of agreement. The referee cannot overrule either of them.

NFHS rules 2-5-3 and 2-6.
Correct, I just did not add that to my completed thought.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 03:41pm
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There is nothing in the rule book that gives one official the right to over turn another's call.

There are some plays like where one official would grant a timeout without control, then we can talk about that.

Fouls are fouls. We need to trust our partners to officiate their primary. Even the best officials kick calls. It is part of our avocation. If it was really a bad call, a good idea might be to talk about the play at halftime or postgame. What did you see on that foul call? How did you feel about that fould call? Do your best to engage the official without calling them out and telling them their call sucked.
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