I don't get it

[Junker]

Ok, here's one for those of you that have coached and especially those of you who are coaches. Last night, we have a blow out going in our girl's game. Not completely out of hand, but the game was not in doubt at all. Late in the 3rd, the losing coach (who we haven't heard from all night) is chirping at me about a hand check. There was no displacement and the offensive player got where she wanted to go (east-west in this case) so I told him it was incidental and that's why it wasn't called. He asks for a time out to talk, I grant it. He starts to rant about the no call, I tell him to choose his words carefully. After a 10 second conversation, I walk away and he tells me, "You're wrong." and I call the T. He obviously wanted it. I just don't get what coaches think they are gaining from getting the T, especially in this case. It doesn't affect how I call the game, it certainly didn't fire up his team. All it did in my opinion was make him look unsporting and model poor behavior for his team. Can anyone enlighten me?

[Nevadaref]

Frustration?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Junker

it certainly didn't fire up his team.

I've had a coach earn a T that did fire up his team. Maybe he was willing to try this tactic and accept the possibility that this method would fail.

Or maybe something else entirely.

Like my friend Paul says, "a million chinese won't give a **** tomorrow."

[kbilla]

Exactly, frustration...he probably regrets it, but it felt good at the time!

[rockyroad]

Sometimes it's frustration. More often it's deflection. This way the coach can complain about how bad we were as opposed to dealing with the fact that his players weren't as good as the others, and he didn't do a very good job preparing them (also known as being out-coached). By a strict definition of the rule, you didn't call hand-checking, so he "had" to get that T to "protect" his players and now can tell everyone that you "hurt" his team...I believe the psychological term is projection.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Sometimes it's frustration. More often it's deflection. This way the coach can complain about how bad we were as opposed to dealing with the fact that his players weren't as good as the others, and he didn't do a very good job preparing them (also known as being out-coached). By a strict definition of the rule, you didn't call hand-checking, so he "had" to get that T to "protect" his players and now can tell everyone that you "hurt" his team...I believe the psychological term is projection.

Rock, I totally agree with what you just said. I've been in that situation before. I just smiled and walked away.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I've had a coach earn a T that did fire up his team. Maybe he was willing to try this tactic and accept the possibility that this method would fail.

Or maybe something else entirely.

Like my friend Paul says, "a million chinese won't give a **** tomorrow."

I've done this when I was a GV coach. Sometimes I've done it to "fire up" the team. Other times - say in a blowout - it was to let them know I was still really behind them. I tried not to make it look bad - jumping up and down screaming - but I would keep at it until I got it if I wanted it. I had one game where I was adamant about my point. the official looked at me and asked it I wanted a T. I said yes. He got a funny look, then smiled and quietly whacked me.

I got what I wanted and neither of us raised our voice or did something to look stupid.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Junker

Ok, here's one for those of you that have coached and especially those of you who are coaches. Last night, we have a blow out going in our girl's game. Not completely out of hand, but the game was not in doubt at all. Late in the 3rd, the losing coach (who we haven't heard from all night) is chirping at me about a hand check. There was no displacement and the offensive player got where she wanted to go (east-west in this case) so I told him it was incidental and that's why it wasn't called. He asks for a time out to talk, I grant it. He starts to rant about the no call, I tell him to choose his words carefully. After a 10 second conversation, I walk away and he tells me, "You're wrong." and I call the T. He obviously wanted it. I just don't get what coaches think they are gaining from getting the T, especially in this case. It doesn't affect how I call the game, it certainly didn't fire up his team. All it did in my opinion was make him look unsporting and model poor behavior for his team. Can anyone enlighten me?

He feels better now..........

[blindzebra]

It's excuse making.

I had a coach in a youth game chirping, during a TO he started going and pointed at the score board. Now I could have whacked him but I went with a stern and loud enough for more than just the 2 of us to hear, "Coach we have NOTHING to do with that score, now stop looking for excuses and coach your team."

It worked too, they closed the gap and all we heard from him the rest of the game was him instructing his team.

[Coltdoggs]

I had a 7th grade coach earlier this year after me about calls, I gave him warning/heard enough/stop sign first and he kept on about the calls on the next trip down the floor. T'd him, told him he would have to sit the rest of the game...he did.

His team was losing going into the half by about 12...

They came out in the second half and went on about a 20-4 run and took the lead and went on to win. After the game, he came over and thanked me and said the T made him focus more on his kids than the calls and it obviously helped him out.

[kblehman]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

It's excuse making.

I had a coach in a youth game chirping, during a TO he started going and pointed at the score board. Now I could have whacked him but I went with a stern and loud enough for more than just the 2 of us to hear, "Coach we have NOTHING to do with that score, now stop looking for excuses and coach your team."

It worked too, they closed the gap and all we heard from him the rest of the game was him instructing his team.

Wow, that's excellent. I gotta remember that one. Thanks, BZ.

Do coaches intentionally push an official to see how much he can get away with? Do they simply not respect an official until the official stands up to him? Or do they really think constant badgering will actually help? Because all it does for me is distract me and make it harder for me to concentrate.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by kblehman

Wow, that's excellent. I gotta remember that one. Thanks, BZ.

Do coaches intentionally push an official to see how much he can get away with? Do they simply not respect an official until the official stands up to him? Or do they really think constant badgering will actually help? Because all it does for me is distract me and make it harder for me to concentrate.

If that's the case, then you need to say something/issue warning and T the next time they "distract" you...Players play, coaches coach, refs ref....at least it's supposed to be that way!

[kblehman]

Originally Posted by kblehman
[D]o they really think constant badgering will actually help? Because all it does for me is distract me and make it harder for me to concentrate.

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

If that's the case, then you need to say something/issue warning and T the next time they "distract" you...Players play, coaches coach, refs ref....at least it's supposed to be that way!

Is that the line in the sand for most officials--when the coach's comments or badgering becomes a distraction?

I have a pretty long fuse (no T's in 60+ games) so I mostly ignore it. However, there have been a few times when it became a distraction and then I myself start second-guessing my own calls, and that's when I worry about the snowball effect. Part of my hesitation is because I'm still a rookie, so when a coach questions a call I sometimes wonder if he's right. Just trying to learn where the boundaries are.

On a similar note, I've done a number of JV games where the coach is fine, but the varsity coach who is sitting on the bench continues to yap and make generic comments. ("It's barn-ball out there," "if they're not gonna call it you just have to play through it," "he's all over him," etc.) Is it best to tell the JV coach to shut him up? Because I'd rather not talk to anyone other than the coach of the team that's playing. Advice on how far to let it go and how to address a bench yapper?

[archangel]

Originally Posted by kblehman

Originally Posted by kblehman
[D]
On a similar note, I've done a number of JV games where the coach is fine, but the varsity coach who is sitting on the bench continues to yap and make generic comments. ("It's barn-ball out there," "if they're not gonna call it you just have to play through it," "he's all over him," etc.)

Those comments are "nothing". Ignore and move on. Dont have rabbit ears.....

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kblehman

Is that the line in the sand for most officials--when the coach's comments or badgering becomes a distraction?

I absolutely will not let a coach distract me from the game. If he/she is distracting you, either warn them (and be prepared to whack after that) or whack them.

Originally Posted by kblehman

On a similar note, I've done a number of JV games where the coach is fine, but the varsity coach who is sitting on the bench continues to yap and make generic comments. ("It's barn-ball out there," "if they're not gonna call it you just have to play through it," "he's all over him," etc.) Is it best to tell the JV coach to shut him up? Because I'd rather not talk to anyone other than the coach of the team that's playing. Advice on how far to let it go and how to address a bench yapper?

I'm more patient on this than a lot of guys on here, I know, but I usually wait for a dead ball or timeout and quietly inform the JV head coach that I'd appreciate his helping with the V coach's chirping, as it will eventually earn the JV coach a seatbelt. Usually seems to work.