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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 02:16am
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The philosophy of awarding two shoots

I have been to several tournaments over the holiday season. IMO, I have observed a trend.

1). A1 is in the act of shooting; A1 is fouled official(s) blows the whistle for the foul; A1's shot is successful; official(s) disallows the basket but awards two shots for the foul.

Now, I'm not the brighest pupil in the classroom but this does not seem right.

I believe you should pass on the foul is the shoot is successful or count the basket and award one free-throw.

JMO, it does not make sense to disallow a basket but award free throws for a shooting foul.

Thoughts???
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Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 02:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
1). A1 is in the act of shooting; A1 is fouled official(s) blows the whistle for the foul; A1's shot is successful; official(s) disallows the basket but awards two shots for the foul.
Unless a team is in the 2 shot bonus, what you suggest has no rule support.
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Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 03:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Unless a team is in the 2 shot bonus, what you suggest has no rule support.

BBR, I agree. My attempt was to identify why official(s) would disallow a basket on a successful shot attempt when the player is in the act of shooting (continous motion R 4-11) when the foul occurred. But, then award two shots for the foul.
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Last edited by truerookie; Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 03:05am.
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Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 11:02pm
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...and has I said, there's no rule support for doing such. Therefore, I don't think you're going to get any other reply.

Personally, I've never seen anyone do it.
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Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 11:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
...and has I said, there's no rule support for doing such. Therefore, I don't think you're going to get any other reply.

Personally, I've never seen anyone do it.
I saw it once. A1 was in the act of shooting and got pushed. The push caused A1 to take about 4 quick stutter-steps and then A1 threw up the ball and it went in. The referee disallowed the basket because of the illegal footwork and awarded 2 shots. Good call.
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Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 11:30pm
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There was no basket to disallow, Z.

Besides that, I don't believe that's the type of situation the rookie is talking about. But who knows? It doesn't make much sense.
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Old Sun Jan 06, 2008, 11:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
There was no basket to disallow, Z.

Besides that, I don't believe that's the type of situation the rookie is talking about. But who knows? It doesn't make much sense.
I know, but I thought it was an interesting (and correct) scenario that I had never seen before.
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 12:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
How is this a good call? The player is in the act of shooting and get fouled while in the act.
So what if a player is in the act of shooting, does not release the ball comes back to the floor and then jumps up again and puts the ball in the hole? Are you going to award the basket?

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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 12:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
So what if a player is in the act of shooting, does not release the ball comes back to the floor and then jumps up again and puts the ball in the hole? Are you going to award the basket?

Peace
No! The point I attempted to make is. If player is in the act of shooting and is fouled he/she is allowed to continue the habitual throwing; pivoting or stepping movement while still holding the ball
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 12:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
I have been to several tournaments over the holiday season. IMO, I have observed a trend.

1). A1 is in the act of shooting; A1 is fouled official(s) blows the whistle for the foul; A1's shot is successful; official(s) disallows the basket but awards two shots for the foul.

Now, I'm not the brighest pupil in the classroom but this does not seem right.

I believe you should pass on the foul is the shoot is successful or count the basket and award one free-throw.

JMO, it does not make sense to disallow a basket but award free throws for a shooting foul.

Thoughts???
Sounds to me like the ref goofed.
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 12:20am
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If they disallow the basket, there are only three scenarios which would allow two shots to the fouled player.

1. Double bonus situation.
2. Shooter traveled (or other violation) prior to releasing the shot, but after the foul).
3. The foul happened just as the period expired, but the period expired prior to the release of the shot (and the officials did not see time on the clock after the whistle).

4. Intentional foul (I added this one even though it doesn't seem like that was the case given your confusion).

Are you sure they weren't in the double bonus (the most likely scenario)?

You noticed a trend? I've never seen a single official make this mistake, so I can't imagine a "trend."
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 12:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
I have been to several tournaments over the holiday season. IMO, I have observed a trend.

1). A1 is in the act of shooting; A1 is fouled official(s) blows the whistle for the foul; A1's shot is successful; official(s) disallows the basket but awards two shots for the foul.

Now, I'm not the brighest pupil in the classroom but this does not seem right.

I believe you should pass on the foul is the shoot is successful or count the basket and award one free-throw.

JMO, it does not make sense to disallow a basket but award free throws for a shooting foul.

Thoughts???
What do you consider a trend? You've seen this how many times? Did the trend also include ejecting both coaches?

A's coach: It went in!! Give us a basket and 1 shot!

B's coach: It can't be two shots! You waved it off! It's gotta be 1 & 1!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 02:42am
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I had something close to this happen in a game once. I had a partner call a foul and the basket went in and he tells me that we have 2 shots. Before he reported the foul, I went up to him real quick and said "Either we have no basket out of bounds, or basket good one shot" he says in return "There is continuation in high school?" I told him yes and he flushed the basket. Glad he was able to make the correct decision in the end.
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 06:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliref
I had something close to this happen in a game once. I had a partner call a foul and the basket went in and he tells me that we have 2 shots. Before he reported the foul, I went up to him real quick and said "Either we have no basket out of bounds, or basket good one shot" he says in return "There is continuation in high school?" I told him yes and he flushed the basket. Glad he was able to make the correct decision in the end.

Caliref, this is the exact situation I was trying to get across. Some believes that continuation does not apply in HS basketball this is where Rule 4-11 allows it to happen.
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Old Mon Jan 07, 2008, 06:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
What do you consider a trend? You've seen this how many times? Did the trend also include ejecting both coaches?

A's coach: It went in!! Give us a basket and 1 shot!

B's coach: It can't be two shots! You waved it off! It's gotta be 1 & 1!

I never said anything about coaches being ejected. I was making an attempt to identify that official(s) does not believe in continous motion when a player is fouled in HS basketball.

The and 1 situations
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