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-   -   Buddy calls with rules question (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/40797-buddy-calls-rules-question.html)

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 07, 2008 07:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie
I would have told him the following: There is no team control on a throw-in Feds. So, since there was a double foul while the ball was NOT in either team control (still in the air). There is no choice but go to the arrow. Rules 6-3g; 4-36-2c will support.

Completely wrong. Rule 4-36-2(b) is the applicable rule. The double foul happened <b>DURING</b> a throw-in. Rule 4-36-2(c) says that no "infraction" is involved. A double foul is a rules infraction.

Scrapper1 Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Rule 4-36-2(b) is the applicable rule. The double foul happened <b>DURING</b> a throw-in. Rule 4-36-2(c) says that no "infraction" is involved. A double foul is a rules infraction.

Jurassic is correct. Seems like many of us aren't really understanding the POI rule yet. That's not intended to be a slam on anybody on this forum, it just means that it isn't being taught well.

truerookie Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Completely wrong. Rule 4-36-2(b) is the applicable rule. The double foul happened <b>DURING</b> a throw-in. Rule 4-36-2(c) says that no "infraction" is involved. A double foul is a rules infraction.


6-3g is applicable too!

rgncjn Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15am

It is my interpretation that the double foul was the interruption to the play. I would give the ball back to Team A for a subsequent throw-in.

I had this situation in a game last year; unfortunately, I cannot remember exactly how we handled it. I remember discussing with my partners, but do not recall the conclusion.

bob jenkins Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie
6-3g is applicable too!

That's twice you've referenced "6-3g" and I can't find it in the book.

M&M Guy Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
That's twice you've referenced "6-3g" and I can't find it in the book.

Metric equivalent?

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie
6-3g is applicable too!

If you are referencing rule 6-4-3(g), please note that the term "infraction" is stated in that rule also. Again, a double foul is an <b>infraction</b> of the rules. That is why neither 6-4-3(g) or 4-38-2(c) are applicable.

Wrong interpretation, rook.

truerookie Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If you are referencing rule 6-4-3(g), please note that the term "infraction" is stated in that rule also. Again, a double foul is an <b>infraction</b> of the rules. That is why neither 6-4-3(g) or 4-38-2(c) are applicable.

Wrong interpretation, rook.

Wrong interpretation or wrong rule referenced? I believe I referenced the wrong rule for the situation. I'm really trying to give rule support with my answers. If along the way, I make mistakes I can live with that. I'm only going to get better.

M&M Guy Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie
Wrong interpretation or wrong rule referenced? I believe I referenced the wrong rule for the situation.

6-4-3(g) is the rule rule you're referencing, and the rule you're mis-interpreting. It indeed does reference using the AP for all double foul situations where there is no team control, however, as JR has pointed out, you left out the important part of that rule: "when no infraction is involved". If you read the definition of POI, in 4-36-2(b) it states POI is "A free throw or throw-in if the stoppage occured during this activity".

So, yes, there is no team control during a throw-in, but the POI goes back to the throw-in after the double foul, since the throw-in was not yet completed. Follow?

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie
Wrong interpretation or wrong rule referenced?

If you're referencing rule 6-4-3(g), then your interpretation is wrong. It's wrong for the exact same reason that 4-36-2(c) isn't applicable. Iow, what M&M said.

truerookie Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy
6-4-3(g) is the rule rule you're referencing, and the rule you're mis-interpreting. It indeed does reference using the AP for all double foul situations where there is no team control, however, as JR has pointed out, you left out the important part of that rule: "when no infraction is involved". If you read the definition of POI, in 4-36-2(b) it states POI is "A free throw or throw-in if the stoppage occured during this activity".

So, yes, there is no team control during a throw-in, but the POI goes back to the throw-in after the double foul, since the throw-in was not yet completed. Follow?

Ok, I understand since the throw-in was not completed and no team control and there was an infraction(s) the double fouls. POI will be the throw-in again entitled to Team A. Makes sense thanks. :)


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