I'm moving:(

[DonInKansas]

I can see that there are some benefits to an association I'm sure, but I guess my vision about the whole thing s skewed. All of my VERY limited knowledge of how associations work is limited to what I've read on this board as well as browsing some websites. All I hear is griping and chirping about "good old boys" in associations as well. All I know is Kansas, so I guess I'm used to doing the legwork that a lot of you are paying the association to do for you. I've only had one time where I believe a coach has cost me games (this was in JUCO baseball, an event that still haunts me to this day, but that's another story).

While I agree that I do not have the training many of you have, as well as the large network of officials to trade war stories with, help with critiquing my game, and other things, I'm happy without the many hassles a lot of the big city guys have. I guess I'm "small town" that way. I'll never stand firm that one way is better as I have minimal information as to how the association guys operate, I'm just speaking basically from what I know. Reading here has helped a ton in some areas, especially with queestions that I'd never dream up on my own that would probably bite me in the butt later. I try to do my homework, do the best job I can, and let that take me as far as it may. I can truly say that it's nice being in an area where I can pick and choose my schedule and have AD's coming for more.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

I can see that there are some benefits to an association I'm sure, but I guess my vision about the whole thing s skewed. All of my VERY limited knowledge of how associations work is limited to what I've read on this board as well as browsing some websites. All I hear is griping and chirping about "good old boys" in associations as well. All I know is Kansas, so I guess I'm used to doing the legwork that a lot of you are paying the association to do for you. I've only had one time where I believe a coach has cost me games (this was in JUCO baseball, an event that still haunts me to this day, but that's another story).

While I agree that I do not have the training many of you have, as well as the large network of officials to trade war stories with, help with critiquing my game, and other things, I'm happy without the many hassles a lot of the big city guys have. I guess I'm "small town" that way. I'll never stand firm that one way is better as I have minimal information as to how the association guys operate, I'm just speaking basically from what I know.

There are definitely some benefits to the system - or lack thereof - in Kansas as well, I won't deny that! I would have had a full V schedule for the first time this year had I stayed - finally would have been in the same area for a couple years.

As for being "small town", I am very much that way, and am fortunate to be in a fairly rural area here in South Carolina. The biggest difference from my time in Kansas is that, while all I work are small towns right now (one school in 4-A around here, all others are 1- and 2-A), there is a small town about every 10 miles here. I worked 21 JV and V games in three weeks in November and December and didn't ever travel more than 30 miles. Having worked NW, NC, and NE Kansas, I've got to say this is nice!

Oh, and as for the griping and chirping, this wouldn't be an officiating site without it, would it?!?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

All of my VERY limited knowledge of how associations work is limited to what I've read on this board as well as browsing some websites. All I hear is griping and chirping about "good old boys" in associations as well.

Most of that comes from people that would rather blame "good old boys" for thier lack of progress rather than get out and improve their game and earn their advancement. That's more of what I see here than actual "good old boys".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Most of that comes from people that would rather blame "good old boys" for thier lack of progress rather than get out and improve their game and earn their advancement. That's more of what I see here than actual "good old boys".

Absolutely.

Peace

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Absolutely.

Peace

Call it "good old boy", loyalty to a fault, comfortable with the devil you know etc. etc. you've worked with and seen work men/women scatched your head and wondered how in the hell they get this game? You've worked with or seen work men/women and said to yourself I can't believe so and so won't give them varsity games.

I was at a meeting, camp I don't remember which in which an assignor discussing on how to move up from underclass to varsity said I don't care if someone just moved into the area and did the state tourney final the first year he/she won't get varsity games. Not wanting varsity games from this particular assignor I asked "so if Hugh Hollins (I think that's his name) a NBA Ref moved into the area and wanted to work you wouldn't give him a varsity game. The reply I received ... next question.

Some complaints are legit and some are excuses as much as we want it to be life is not fair. That's just the way it is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Call it "good old boy", loyalty to a fault, comfortable with the devil you know etc. etc. you've worked with and seen work men/women scatched your head and wondered how in the hell they get this game? You've worked with or seen work men/women and said to yourself I can't believe so and so won't give them varsity games.

Of course I have seen that. That does not mean that there is a master plan to keep other officials out of the loop either. I also see a lot of sophomore officials (who are supposed to be the next in line) and I wonder how could they even handle varsity game if someone in my game does not show up? I do not see a lot of officials on the cusp that are not getting opportunities. I might work with a couple of people that I wonder why they are there, but I am not seeing many that are really ready to step in either. If you are going to replace the old guard, you have to have people to replace them too.

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I was at a meeting, camp I don't remember which in which an assignor discussing on how to move up from underclass to varsity said I don't care if someone just moved into the area and did the state tourney final the first year he/she won't get varsity games. Not wanting varsity games from this particular assignor I asked "so if Hugh Hollins (I think that's his name) a NBA Ref moved into the area and wanted to work you wouldn't give him a varsity game. The reply I received ... next question.

And that is that particular assignor. That does not mean that there are others that share that opinion. As a matter of fact if that was the case, I would have not worked varsity my first year in the Chicago area and two assignors gave me a good handful right off the bat and I had previous varsity experience. And also realize that some of them say one thing to not keep up the expectations of most, and when they find an official that is clearly qualified they pick them up. I work in a couple of leagues now the assignor claimed it would take years to get in their league regardless of your experience and ability. Then when I went to their camp, I was picked up immediately. And I know someone right now that camp into town about two years ago and worked varsity off the bat as well.

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Some complaints are legit and some are excuses as much as we want it to be life is not fair. That's just the way it is.

One of the problems in our area is that officials often put all their eggs in one basket. They only want to work for a couple of guys that are close to them. If they tried to look at a broader area, they might not work more of a varsity schedule than they currently do. The best examples are guys directly inside of Chicago. Many of these guys only want to work one of the two leagues in the city limits. If they were willing to go outside of the city limits, they could easily work other games. But in many of their minds working 10 miles outside of the city is "too far" and they do not get games they would ordinarily be available for. Many times it is self-inflected on what they can or cannot do. And let us face it; all officials are not qualified to work a freshman game, let alone a varsity contest. And many of those officials are almost never realistic with what they can or cannot do.

Peace

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

One of the problems in our area is that officials often put all their eggs in one basket. They only want to work for a couple of guys that are close to them. If they tried to look at a broader area, they might not work more of a varsity schedule than they currently do. The best examples are guys directly inside of Chicago. Many of these guys only want to work one of the two leagues in the city limits. If they were willing to go outside of the city limits, they could easily work other games. But in many of their minds working 10 miles outside of the city is "too far" and they do not get games they would ordinarily be available for. Many times it is self-inflected on what they can or cannot do. And let us face it; all officials are not qualified to work a freshman game, let alone a varsity contest. And many of those officials are almost never realistic with what they can or cannot do.

This is exactly my experience. When I started, I worked "exclusively" for one assignor. It seemed fine...he had a lot of leagues and a lot of games and I got a lot of assignments. Then I found I could never advance with him because he had a huge need for officials who could work the freshmen/JV doubleheaders that started at 3:30. When I asked for varsity games, he said he had none. He had never seen me work and he made it clear he was not interested in how many camps I attended or even in seeing me work.

We had a falling out three years ago because I pushed for varsity games. It forced me to find other assignors. One gave me varsity games immediately; another a mixed schedule; and the third a JV schedule with a promise that he would see me work to consider me for varsity. I now have a full varsity schedule...which is what I wanted. I have four assignors instead of one and I have to travel more than I would like some nights. But the trade-off has been worth it.