I'm moving:(

[tomegun]

What is the highest the kicker has ever been?
My state of residence is Alaska so I'm somewhat familiar with getting money back. The most I ever got was $995, but it got to around $2k at one point.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by tomegun

What is the highest the kicker has ever been?
My state of residence is Alaska so I'm somewhat familiar with getting money back. The most I ever got was $995, but it got to around $2k at one point.

It's a percentage of how much you paid in the first place. Although I think there might be an upper cap? I'm not sure about that. I'll never get into that bracket! We also found out the hard way this year that if they think you owe them money, even if you don't, they'll keep the kicker and apply it to their supposed debt. We're going to have to fight that one out this month. Ours would have been around $500.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Ours would have been around $500.

Mine was almost $700 this year. I spent it all on sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, but without the sex or the drugs.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

BTW - every time someone tries to get the law changed, they get smacked upside the head by all the Fire Marshals in the state.

Seriously? Unreal.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by tomegun

So if someone moved to Portland after doing playoffs and/or state finals in another state they wouldn't have a full varsity schedule?

Is there a transfers scrimmage or anything like that? That is pretty rough. You are shattering my dream of working for Nike when I retire (for the first time).

Officiating in some areas is very provincial. I know of two professional minor league baseball umpires who are not yet allowed to work Varsity games in their home association suring school season. Unfortunately "time-in" is valued more than ability by some associations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Unfortunately "time-in" is valued more than ability by some associations.

On our local board, the season in which you pass the written exam and the floor exam, doesn't count as a year. You must work at least three years of only junior varsity ball to move up. You must work at least three years of "split" ball, a combination or junior varsity and varsity games, to move up. Finally, after working at least three years of "split" ball, you can move up to full varsity, i.e all varsity games. So in reality, no matter how good your peer ratings, and rankings, are, you can't get a full varsity schedule until your seventh (or eighth including your first "probation" year) year.

It didn't effect me. I took me four years to make "split", and four more years to make full varsity, two years more than the minumum.

Note: We have over 280 officials, 85 are considered full varsity, 30 are considered "split". We service about 70 high schools, most with both boys and girls programs, as well as many freshman programs, and many middle school programs.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On our local board, the season in which you pass the written exam and the floor exam, doesn't count as a year. You must work at least three years of only junior varsity ball to move up. You must work at least three years of "split" ball, a combination or junior varsity and varsity games, to move up. Finally, after working at least three years of "split" ball, you can move up to full varsity, i.e all varsity games. So in reality, no matter how good your peer ratings, and rankings, are, you can't get a full varsity schedule until your seventh (or eighth including your first "probation" year) year.

It didn't effect me. I took me four years to make "split", and four more years to make full varsity, two years more than the minumum.

Note: We have over 280 officials, 85 are considered full varsity, 30 are considered "split". We service about 70 high schools, most with both boys and girls programs, as well as many freshman programs, and many middle school programs.

Pathetic. Systems such as this exist to protect those on top instead of instead of developing and utilzing better officials.

This system would prohibit a retired NCAA D-1 Final Four experienced official from working varsity for seven years. Incredible.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Pathetic. Systems such as this exist to protect those on top instead of instead of developing and utilzing better officials.

This system would prohibit a retired NCAA D-1 Final Four experienced official from working varsity for seven years. Incredible.

No, it keeps them from having all-varsity for 7 years. They get SOME varsity after 4 years. I wonder how good a retired NCAA D1 ref would be at HS varsity. Personally, I'd rather have those folks take a year or to to "adjust down" to a different set of expectations. Although I expect 4 years may be a bit too long.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

No, it keeps them from having all-varsity for 7 years. They get SOME varsity after 4 years. I wonder how good a retired NCAA D1 ref would be at HS varsity. Personally, I'd rather have those folks take a year or to to "adjust down" to a different set of expectations. Although I expect 4 years may be a bit too long.

Juulie - do you think Howard would give Joey Crawford some varsity games if he retired and moved to Portland?

WOW! Joey Crawford working HS. I'd pay to see that. Can't you just see him working an Oregon City girls game!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Juulie - do you think Howard would give Joey Crawford some varsity games if he retired and moved to Portland?

WOW! Joey Crawford working HS. I'd pay to see that. Can't you just see him working an Oregon City girls game!

I'd like to see him tangle with Doherty at OC. THAT would be interesting. Or that %^&&( at Hillsboro. I'd bet on tossing him in about a minute and a half.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

No, it keeps them from having all-varsity for 7 years. They get SOME varsity after 4 years.

Don't drink the kool-aide. Any system that rigidly enforces the one size fits all "time-in-grade" as the one we are discussing, and is not flexible enough to consider talent and the reality that not all officials develop the same or transfer with the same experience and ability, exists to protect those on top of the pecking order, who, normally, have the votes on the board to keep it in place.

One of my proudest moments when I was a first time board member in the local baseball association was to help kill a similar restriction that had been in place for years, even though I was one of the senior officials being protected.

We now evaluate all transfers and assign them to the appropriate level. Before that, we had professional umpires restricted to JV games.

We also recognize that not all officials develop at the same rate. Some might need seven years of training, growth and experience to work a full varsity level. Most don't.

There are a number of good NCAA officials who began their college career within five years of working high school ball.

As far as your argument of taking time to "dial it down", many D-1 officials concurrently work a few high school games during their season. They know how to dial it down.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Don't drink the kool-aide.

PLEASE don't resurrect that old ghost. Pulleeeezzzeeeee.....

Originally Posted by GarthB

Any system that rigidly enforces the one size fits all "time-in-grade" as the one we are discussing, and is not flexible enough to consider talent and the reality that not all officials develop the same or transfer with the same experience and ability, exists to protect those on top of the pecking order, who, normally, have the votes on the board to keep it in place.

I didn't say I approved of this system. I just was pointing out that your 7 year rule wasn't entirely correct.

Originally Posted by GarthB

One of my proudest moments when I was a first time board member in the local baseball association was to help kill a similar restriction that had been in place for years, even though I was one of the senior officials being protected.

I agree with your effort. It makes the most sense to judge people based on their abilities rather than their "years in".

Originally Posted by GarthB

There are a number of good NCAA officials who began their college career within five years of working high school ball.

As far as your argument of taking time to "dial it down", many D-1 officials concurrently work a few high school games during their season. They know how to dial it down.

Right, but then they're in that hs association and won't need 7 years to get full varsity schedules. I also know that at least some D-1 assignors won't let their people work hs games. But in our association, D-1 refs can maintain their membership (time-in) and thus be eligible for varsity games as soon as they're allowed to take them.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Mine was almost $700 this year. I spent it all on sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, but without the sex or the drugs.

And the rest, you squandered, I suppose.

[SMEngmann]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On our local board, the season in which you pass the written exam and the floor exam, doesn't count as a year. You must work at least three years of only junior varsity ball to move up. You must work at least three years of "split" ball, a combination or junior varsity and varsity games, to move up. Finally, after working at least three years of "split" ball, you can move up to full varsity, i.e all varsity games. So in reality, no matter how good your peer ratings, and rankings, are, you can't get a full varsity schedule until your seventh (or eighth including your first "probation" year) year.

It didn't effect me. I took me four years to make "split", and four more years to make full varsity, two years more than the minumum.

Note: We have over 280 officials, 85 are considered full varsity, 30 are considered "split". We service about 70 high schools, most with both boys and girls programs, as well as many freshman programs, and many middle school programs.

This system is absurd, especially for developing refs. It discourages young officials from taking the time on their own to go to camps, work hard in the offseason and do the things that they need to do to improve their game because outside of college, there really is nowhere to go. As a result, your association loses all of its up and comers completely to college ball and when your varsity guys start to get old, there's a huge shortage of quality officials. I'd be interested to see how many of the 80 or so varsity guys are really too old to be doing V ball and are hanging on too long. That type of situation IMHO does not respect the game of basketball or the avocation of officiating.

We are living in America, where we are supposed to award ability, hard work and achievement. Your system penalizes officials for possessing those qualities and ultimately hurts your association as it denies you top officials and discourages offseason improvement.

Every association should have 2 goals: 1) service the game of basketball by matching the best crew of available officials on each game and 2) service its officials by matching them on games and with partners that allow them to develop and improve. Your group's system does neither.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

This system is absurd, especially for developing refs. It discourages young officials from taking the time on their own to go to camps, work hard in the offseason and do the things that they need to do to improve their game because outside of college, there really is nowhere to go. We are living in America, where we are supposed to award ability, hard work and achievement. Your system penalizes officials for possessing those qualities and ultimately hurts your association as it denies you top officials and discourages offseason improvement.

I'm not going to comment on the good, or bad points, or our local system, mainly because I'm not familiar with how other local boards, or associations, work their systems. But I will reply to the quote above, because my post was simply in regard to the minimum number of years required to get to a certain level of games, and I didn't give Forum members the whole story.

Within each level (junior varsity, "split", full varsity) there are rankings that determine the number of games that you will be assigned. A junior varsity official may receive anywhere from 6 to 27 games a season depending on their ranking. A "split" official may receive anywhere from 14 to 22 junior varsity games, and from 4 to 12 varsity games a season depending on their ranking. A full varsity official may receive anywhere from 8 to 43 varsity games a season depending on their ranking.

Rankings are determined mainly by peer ratings. Rankings also depend, in a smaller part, on refresher exam scores, attendance at meetings, and availability to officiate.

Officials on our local board take time on their own to go to camps, work hard in the offseason, and do the things that they need to do to improve their game, because they want their peer ratings to improve, to improve their assigned schedule, and also, want to move up to the next level. Officials who do not work hard to improve their game, will see their peer ratings drop, and not only will their assigned games decrease, they may also fall far enough in the rankings to drop from full varsity to "split", or from "split" to junior varsity only. Our former assigner used to say that a varsity official on our local board is not like a Supreme Court Justice or the Pope. Varsity officials are not varsity officials for life. They must prove their worth every season, or low peer ratings will lead to low rankings, which may lead to a lower level assigned schedule.