Critique anyone

[Snake~eyes]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Why not?

I think it looks awkard and its unnecssary communication. JMO.

[BktBallRef]

If it's a shooting foul, you should always indicate the number of shots and the shooter's number before moving to the table. I don't see how it's either awkward or unnecessary.

IOW, I disagree.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If it's a shooting foul, you should always indicate the number of shots and the shooter's number before moving to the table. I don't see how it's either awkward or unnecessary.

It's unnecessary because everybody knows it's two shots. I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot. This is a pet peeve of mine. Guys give a quick fist, put up two fingers, yell "Two!" and then run to the table.

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul.

I'd like to see a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul too, but I have no problem with the official saying and signaling "two." His partners know what's going to happen and can get everything ready. Even though I think mechanics are important, 99% of those in the gym don't care if it's a push or a hold or a block. They just want to know what's going to happen next.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Even though I think mechanics are important, 99% of those in the gym don't care if it's a push or a hold or a block.

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

There are very few feelings worse than having NO idea who the shooter is. If you force yourself to tell your partner(s) the shooter's number, one of you is much more likely to remember.

[eyezen]

Take this for what it's worth....

TO: NCAA Divisions I, II and III Coordinators of Men's Basketball
Officials. December 13th, 2007

FROM: Henry O. Nichols

National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating.

[snip]
Signals. When calling a foul that will result
in 2 free throws for a player fouled while attempting a try for goal
(including continuous motion), the calling official should not
immediately signal "two" with his fingers in the air. If the attempt is
touched close to the basket and the outside officials do not judge goal
tending or basket interference, the two fingers in the air could give
the false impression that the goal counts. In these situations, do not
signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending
or basket interference.
[snip]

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Take this for what it's worth....

TO: NCAA Divisions I, II and III Coordinators of Men's Basketball
Officials. December 13th, 2007

FROM: Henry O. Nichols

National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating.

[snip]
Signals. When calling a foul that will result
in 2 free throws for a player fouled while attempting a try for goal
(including continuous motion), the calling official should not
immediately signal "two" with his fingers in the air. If the attempt is
touched close to the basket and the outside officials do not judge goal
tending or basket interference, the two fingers in the air could give
the false impression that the goal counts. In these situations, do not
signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending
or basket interference.
[snip]

I ain't worth a damn.

This is about a NFHS game. It has nothing to do with Hanky-poo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Take this for what it's worth....

TO: NCAA Divisions I, II and III Coordinators of Men's Basketball
Officials. December 13th, 2007

FROM: Henry O. Nichols

National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating.

[snip]
Signals. When calling a foul that will result
in 2 free throws for a player fouled while attempting a try for goal
(including continuous motion), the calling official should not
immediately signal "two" with his fingers in the air. If the attempt is
touched close to the basket and the outside officials do not judge goal
tending or basket interference, the two fingers in the air could give
the false impression that the goal counts. In these situations, do not
signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending
or basket interference.
[snip]

For what is it worth in the CCA Men's Basketball Manual it says on page 77 under Article 2. The Calling Official, it says: "Before reporting the foul to the scorer, it is the responsibility of the calling official to inform the player who is to attempt the free throw(s) and to tell a partner the shooter's number. If two free throws are to be attempted, visually and verbally notify your partners.

For the record I seem to always say "two shots" (one or three when appropriate) and signal two shots when I am calling any shooting foul. I have never been told not to do it that way. I do not see why this is a problem. I guess this is just one of those things that get people all riled up in one area and is not an issue in another.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

There are very few feelings worse than having NO idea who the shooter is. If you force yourself to tell your partner(s) the shooter's number, one of you is much more likely to remember.

At the high school level, I'm content if my partner's tell me what they have (number of shots or inbounds location). I'll get their shooter for them. I expect more from my college partners.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It's unnecessary because everybody knows it's two shots. I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot. This is a pet peeve of mine. Guys give a quick fist, put up two fingers, yell "Two!" and then run to the table.

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul.

So you're against it because officials don't give a proper prelim? That's a stupid reason. Where did I say only the number of FTs should be shot? I didn't. I said number of shots and shooter. So WTF are you disagreeing with?

I guess there's no reason to give it as you report or when the L steps into the lane either, eh? After all, everybody knows it.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

Wait a minute. You aren't disagreeing. I wish you'd make up your damn mind.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you're against it because officials don't give a proper prelim?

Who ever said I was against it?!?!?! Right in the post that you quoted I said, "I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot". I never said I was against it or that it shouldn't be done. I answered YOUR specific question as to why it is unnecessary. I said it was unnecessary because it provides information that everyone already knows (assuming it's obvious that we have a shooting foul). Your panties are in a bunch for no reason.

Wait a minute. You aren't disagreeing. I wish you'd make up your damn mind.

Exactly, I'm not disagreeing. I never was disagreeing. I wish you'd read my damn posts.

[BktBallRef]

You agree but you disagree. That makes no sense.

BTW, I don't wear panties (that's Padgett) and your posts make my head hurt.

[dan74]

Thanks, everyone!

I was hoping the game would be on the site for viewing today, but it isn't posted.

Although there's some difference in opinion about a few habits I've picked up in the last year or so, I will put into practice many of the tips you've all offered. I need to re-read the posts to absorb everything, but here are some thins that stick out. (by the way, I'm too competitive to give up the stripes just yet, I have to get better at this first):

1. Stand tall when at the reporting area;
2. Consistently hustle to the reporting area (I watched a game last night where the officials reported fouls from the end lines);
3. Get better at knowing the foul situation and when bonus is about to take effect;
4. Get better at keeping track of the AP rather than relying on the table or the extra whistle I rotate from pocket to pocket; and
5. Raising my hand before I hand or bounce the ball to the thrower (hadn't thought about this before but it makes good sense).

There was also many good tips pertaining to three person mechanics. I'll study those suggestions, too, althouugh I don't think I'll work any more of those this season. I can see why some officials like it over two person.

Again, thanks.

[tomegun]

IMO, it isn't always necessary to signal "two" on a shooting foul. If everyone in the building knows it was a shooting foul the communication is worthless. Other times it is needed.
Whether NFHS, NCAA or NBA I find value in doing things for a particular reason instead of just following what others do. Most of the time, we should be able to explain why we do certain things.

[lmeadski]

Originally Posted by tomegun

IMO, it isn't always necessary to signal "two" on a shooting foul. If everyone in the building knows it was a shooting foul the communication is worthless. Other times it is needed.

And EVERY ref in our association asks that we communicate two/three shots on a shooting foul. The reason: they know whether it is shooting or on the floor and then know to get the players ready during the report of the foul. How else would one communicate this info to their crew?