Critique anyone

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If it's a shooting foul, you should always indicate the number of shots and the shooter's number before moving to the table. I don't see how it's either awkward or unnecessary.

It's unnecessary because everybody knows it's two shots. I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot. This is a pet peeve of mine. Guys give a quick fist, put up two fingers, yell "Two!" and then run to the table.

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul.

I'd like to see a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul too, but I have no problem with the official saying and signaling "two." His partners know what's going to happen and can get everything ready. Even though I think mechanics are important, 99% of those in the gym don't care if it's a push or a hold or a block. They just want to know what's going to happen next.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by dan74

Although strongly considering hanging up my stripes, I have a VG game today, my first varsity game, that would be unfair to pull out of. It's broadcasted via the net at I Fan Sports Network at ifan.tv/

I haven't worked a three person game before, only scrimmages, so I'm sure I'll mess up some switches; however, should you have any input on court presence, mechanics, etc. Feel free.

I'll be the big doofus, yes, the one with glasses and a goatee. The game starts at 1:00 PM central time (Clayton HS v. West Salem)...click live events...Clayton game...enter.

I'm having a hard time telling which one you are. So I'll just comment on the crew as a whole.

Overall, doing a good job. Getting the obvious calls and maintaining control of the game.

As a crew, a little slow to rotate at lead sometimes. Mainly because the lead doesn't get to close-down quickly enough. The lead isn't even starting to rotate sometimes until the pass to the post is already in the air.

Pretty good crew communication. However, the crew didn't communicate that there were six team fouls so nobody knew it was bonus on the 7th foul (that didn't look good).

Very quiet gym doesn't mean the crew needs to be quiet as a mouse too. I'd like to hear more strong voices at the spot of the foul and also at the table.

C and T are bailing out on shots and on loose balls instead of staying put or stepping towards the basket. I think the lead is having to watch way more of the rebounding action than he would have to if our T and C were staying engaged.

A couple of across-the-key calls from the lead (not trusting the center official). Part of that might be the fact that C and T are bailing out so the lead is starting to feel like he has to stay active instead of having a patient whistle.

I don't think an official with his back to the table should ever look back over his shoulder (taking eyes off the players) to see the arrow. The officials facing the table should do that. Pregame that.

The crew is doing a good job of recognizing time-outs and granting them immediately.

Sometimes the C is too high (top-of-the-key or higher). Start at foul-line extended and adjust from there. C should be parallel to the sideline about 90% of the time. C is at a 45-degree angle too much (that closes your vision to the high screens). Sometimes the C is even about the 28' foot line which is where the T should be.

Right before the end of the half, the administering official waited for about 3 subs to come in, one after the other. Part of my pregame is that we don't wait for subs. If they are at the table (or even almost there) fine. However, if we are ready to inbound and the player is just getting off the bench, we aren't waiting for them. That was about a 30-second break while we waited for subs that was unnecessary, IMO.

Well disregard everything I said. I just realized I was watching Medford vs. Sommerset. Dammit!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Even though I think mechanics are important, 99% of those in the gym don't care if it's a push or a hold or a block.

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

There are very few feelings worse than having NO idea who the shooter is. If you force yourself to tell your partner(s) the shooter's number, one of you is much more likely to remember.

[eyezen]

Take this for what it's worth....

TO: NCAA Divisions I, II and III Coordinators of Men's Basketball
Officials. December 13th, 2007

FROM: Henry O. Nichols

National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating.

[snip]
Signals. When calling a foul that will result
in 2 free throws for a player fouled while attempting a try for goal
(including continuous motion), the calling official should not
immediately signal "two" with his fingers in the air. If the attempt is
touched close to the basket and the outside officials do not judge goal
tending or basket interference, the two fingers in the air could give
the false impression that the goal counts. In these situations, do not
signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending
or basket interference.
[snip]

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

There are very few feelings worse than having NO idea who the shooter is. If you force yourself to tell your partner(s) the shooter's number, one of you is much more likely to remember.

At the high school level, I'm content if my partner's tell me what they have (number of shots or inbounds location). I'll get their shooter for them. I expect more from my college partners.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It's unnecessary because everybody knows it's two shots. I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot. This is a pet peeve of mine. Guys give a quick fist, put up two fingers, yell "Two!" and then run to the table.

The "Two" indication is probably the least important piece of information to be given at the spot of the foul; yet for many officials (high school AND college), it's the ONLY information given at the spot of the foul.

So you're against it because officials don't give a proper prelim? That's a stupid reason. Where did I say only the number of FTs should be shot? I didn't. I said number of shots and shooter. So WTF are you disagreeing with?

I guess there's no reason to give it as you report or when the L steps into the lane either, eh? After all, everybody knows it.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Including me! I don't care if you call it a hold or a block. The two most important pieces of information (assuming that it's obviously a 2-shot situation) are the fouler's number and the shooter's number. Those things MUST be communicated at the spot of the foul, but are very often overlooked.

Wait a minute. You aren't disagreeing. I wish you'd make up your damn mind.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Take this for what it's worth....

TO: NCAA Divisions I, II and III Coordinators of Men's Basketball
Officials. December 13th, 2007

FROM: Henry O. Nichols

National Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officiating.

[snip]
Signals. When calling a foul that will result
in 2 free throws for a player fouled while attempting a try for goal
(including continuous motion), the calling official should not
immediately signal "two" with his fingers in the air. If the attempt is
touched close to the basket and the outside officials do not judge goal
tending or basket interference, the two fingers in the air could give
the false impression that the goal counts. In these situations, do not
signal two free throws until it is clear that there is no goal tending
or basket interference.
[snip]

I ain't worth a damn.

This is about a NFHS game. It has nothing to do with Hanky-poo.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you're against it because officials don't give a proper prelim?

Who ever said I was against it?!?!?! Right in the post that you quoted I said, "I don't have a problem with signaling two shots, unless it's the only information given at the spot". I never said I was against it or that it shouldn't be done. I answered YOUR specific question as to why it is unnecessary. I said it was unnecessary because it provides information that everyone already knows (assuming it's obvious that we have a shooting foul). Your panties are in a bunch for no reason.

Wait a minute. You aren't disagreeing. I wish you'd make up your damn mind.

Exactly, I'm not disagreeing. I never was disagreeing. I wish you'd read my damn posts.

[BktBallRef]

You agree but you disagree. That makes no sense.

BTW, I don't wear panties (that's Padgett) and your posts make my head hurt.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by zebraman

I'm having a hard time telling which one you are. So I'll just comment on the crew as a whole.

Overall, doing a good job. Getting the obvious calls and maintaining control of the game.

As a crew, a little slow to rotate at lead sometimes. Mainly because the lead doesn't get to close-down quickly enough. The lead isn't even starting to rotate sometimes until the pass to the post is already in the air.

Pretty good crew communication. However, the crew didn't communicate that there were six team fouls so nobody knew it was bonus on the 7th foul (that didn't look good).

Very quiet gym doesn't mean the crew needs to be quiet as a mouse too. I'd like to hear more strong voices at the spot of the foul and also at the table.

C and T are bailing out on shots and on loose balls instead of staying put or stepping towards the basket. I think the lead is having to watch way more of the rebounding action than he would have to if our T and C were staying engaged.

A couple of across-the-key calls from the lead (not trusting the center official). Part of that might be the fact that C and T are bailing out so the lead is starting to feel like he has to stay active instead of having a patient whistle.

I don't think an official with his back to the table should ever look back over his shoulder (taking eyes off the players) to see the arrow. The officials facing the table should do that. Pregame that.

The crew is doing a good job of recognizing time-outs and granting them immediately.

Sometimes the C is too high (top-of-the-key or higher). Start at foul-line extended and adjust from there. C should be parallel to the sideline about 90% of the time. C is at a 45-degree angle too much (that closes your vision to the high screens). Sometimes the C is even about the 28' foot line which is where the T should be.

Right before the end of the half, the administering official waited for about 3 subs to come in, one after the other. Part of my pregame is that we don't wait for subs. If they are at the table (or even almost there) fine. However, if we are ready to inbound and the player is just getting off the bench, we aren't waiting for them. That was about a 30-second break while we waited for subs that was unnecessary, IMO.

Well disregard everything I said. I just realized I was watching Medford vs. Sommerset. Dammit!

I disagree with you Z...nobody should "DISREGARD" your critique. It is very good. There are some great pointers in there for officials trying to get better.

Also, IMHO...BBR has some good comments. (And BBR actually gave some POSITIVE reinforcement to the guy.)

I have to admit though, Z, I don't really have to much of a hang-up on waiting for the subs...if I see that a coach wants to get a player in...I'll usually wait. But, if you have a problem with it, definetly a good idea to pre-game so that the crew can be on the same page.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It ain't worth a damn.

This is about a NFHS game. It has nothing to do with Hanky-poo.

Don't know what your problem is but I posted it for information only. Officials were free to read it and take what they want from it, if you feel it corrupts your precious NFHS game then ignore it.

The main point is don't signal immediately "two", make sure the is nothing funky (BI or GT) going on with the try first to avoid confusion.

By the way that is same as the NFHS procedure.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Don't know what your problem is but I posted it for information only. Officials were free to read it and take what they want from it, if you feel it corrupts your precious NFHS game then ignore it.

The main point is don't signal immediately "two", make sure the is nothing funky (BI or GT) going on with the try first to avoid confusion.

By the way that is same as the NFHS procedure.

You were free to post, "For what it's worth."

I'm not free to post, "It ain't worth a damn,"?

I think I am.

It's an NFHS game. We were talking NFHS mechanics. It doesn't matter what Hank thinks. BTW, he had the worse mechanics of any D-1 official I ever saw work.

If the NFHS mechanic is the same as the NCAA mechanic, then post it for all to read.

[JoeTheRef]

In GA we walk, and not through players, and report the foul as we are walking towards the table. We don't stop and report, at least the majority of us don't.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You were free to post, "For what it's worth."

I'm not free to post, "It ain't worth a damn,"?

I think I am.

It's an NFHS game. We were talking NFHS mechanics. It doesn't matter what Hank thinks. BTW, he had the worse mechanics of any D-1 official I ever saw work.

If the NFHS mechanic is the same as the NCAA mechanic, then post it for all to read.

You're more than free to post it "It ain't worth a damn", which I'm also free to add is about as good as your tact.

I merely posted it for information, information that more than likely is not readily available to all on the forum. I believe that is worth something.

Why couldn't you of just done something positive by adding to the conversation and posted the NFHS procedure yourself instead of detracting from it.

Which I might add is found on Page 68 of the NFHS OM.