Not a travel...?

[PSidbury]

Player attempts a shot but the ball misses rim and backboard (air-ball) and other players. Same shooting player runs down the miss and secures ball in-bounds.

I understand that this is not a travel in NFHS rules since control was terminated at release of ball, however could someone please give me chapter and verse on this one?

I am having trouble finding an explanation in the Rules Book.

In contrast an errant pass that does not touch other players, but is secured by the passing player, is a travel. Because a pass attempt is not a loss of control... hmmm?

Just for grins, what is the reason in creating a rule that defines a pass attempt as a different type of ball release than a shot attempt? It seems to me that releasing the ball is releasing the ball, regardless if it goes toward the basket or towards another player (am I making sense...?)

Thanks !

[grunewar]

Case Book - 4.44 SITUATION B: A1 attempts a try after ending the dribble. The try does not touch the backboard, the rim or any other player. A1 runs and is able to catch the ball before it strikes the floor. Is this traveling? RULING: No. When A1 recovered his/her own try, A1 could either dribble, pass or try again. There was no team control after the ball was released on a try. (4-12; 4-41)

[JS 20]

I'm sure there's a situation like this in the case book but I don't have it with me. The reason it's not a travel is because the player made a valid shot attempt and any player is able to secure the rebound after that. As long as you're comfortable with saying it was a valid shot attempt, it's the same as it hitting the rim and the shooter rebounding.

Don't have a book with me, but I'm sure others will be along to oblige you.

There is no team control on the try, jump-ball or throw-in. So the shooter may regain possession of the airball as team control ended on the try. As far as the recovered pass goes... Team A is still in possession of the ball being passed from A1 to A2.

Go to the index & read up on team control. Team control is the key!

[jdw3018]

An errant pass that doesn't touch another player is treated as a dribble. If the player secures it before it touches the ground, it is an illegal dribble. If the pass bounces and then is secured it is an illegal dribble, unless the player hasn't yet dribbled, and then it is legal.

[PSidbury]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Case Book - 4.44 SITUATION B (4-12; 4-41)

As usual, right there under my nose... or was my thumb covering that part of the page...

Anyway, somebody want to indulge in some Age of Reason thinking and give this a shot:

Just for grins, what is the reasoning in creating a rule that defines a pass attempt as a different type of ball release rather than a shot attempt?

It seems to me that "deliberately releasing the ball" is "deliberately releasing the ball", regardless if it goes toward the basket or towards another player?

And by deliberate, I mean not to be confused with an "attempt at possession" (fumble), which is not a "deliberate release of the ball"... or is it?

"Because the Rules Book says so, Coach," seems such a cop-out.

Thanks !

[NewNCref]

Well, a shot is fundamentally different to the game from a pass. You don't get two points for passing. You get two shots if you're fouled while shooting (if the try is no good).

The whole difference is whether it was a try for a goal. If so, then you were attempting to score, and things fundamentally change. You are giving the ball up (from your team and your person, hence lack of player and team control...well, except for airborne shooter provisions) in an attempt to score. In a pass, you have no intention of that happening. You solely mean to give it to another member of your team. Hence, these two types of "deliberately giving up the ball" are fundamentally different.

Just the way I see it.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

...Just for grins, what is the reasoning in creating a rule that defines a pass attempt as a different type of ball release rather than a shot attempt?

It seems to me that "deliberately releasing the ball" is "deliberately releasing the ball", regardless if it goes toward the basket or towards another player?

And by deliberate, I mean not to be confused with an "attempt at possession" (fumble), which is not a "deliberate release of the ball"... or is it?

"Because the Rules Book says so, Coach," seems such a cop-out.

Thanks !

The cop-out is all you will get at the bottom line. Why can't I run with the ball? The rule's say so. Five players? Why not six or four? The rules say so.

Edited for redundancy
Edited for redundancy

[PSidbury]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

The cop-out is all you will get at the bottom line. Why can't I run with the ball the ball? The rule's say so. Five players? Why not six or four? The rules say so.

Well, that's no fun. "Because I said so," is so my Dad...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

As usual, right there under my nose... or was my thumb covering that part of the page...

Anyway, somebody want to indulge in some Age of Reason thinking and give this a shot:

Just for grins, what is the reasoning in creating a rule that defines a pass attempt as a different type of ball release rather than a shot attempt?

It seems to me that "deliberately releasing the ball" is "deliberately releasing the ball", regardless if it goes toward the basket or towards another player?

And by deliberate, I mean not to be confused with an "attempt at possession" (fumble), which is not a "deliberate release of the ball"... or is it?

"Because the Rules Book says so, Coach," seems such a cop-out.

Thanks !

Your fundamental assumption is incorrect. A poor pass does not equate to a travel. It may be an illegal dribble, but it certainly is not a travel.

As someone else said, if the ball is allowed to strike the floor, then this action becomes a dribble. Now the legality depends upon whether the player had previously dribbled. If so, then an illegal (double) dribble violation is warranted. If not, then the play is legal.

2003-04 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS
SITUATION 6: A1 jumps from the floor and secures a defensive re-bound. A1 then pivots toward the sideline where a teammate, A2, is standing for an outlet pass. Just as A1 releases the pass, A2 turns and runs down the court. A1 throws a soft bounce pass to where A2 was standing. A1 then moves and secures the ball without dribbling. RULING: Legal action. A1 had the pivot foot on the floor and began a dribble by throwing the ball to the floor (the bounce pass); the dribble ended when A1 secured the ball. Upon reaching the ball, A1 also could have continued the dribble. (4-15-3,4)


Lastly the difference between releasing a pass and a try for goal is that while both end player control, the try also ends team control while the passing action does not. This is because the intent of a pass is to keep control of the ball with that team, while the intent of a try is score and thus give the other team a turn with the ball or if unsuccessful the rebound is up for grabs.

[Back In The Saddle]

Who has time for reasoning and philosophical discussions of the underlying thinking behind the rules when answering a coach's question? Give him your dad's answer and get the ball back in play. To reason with a coach about a rule would require the coach to actually know the rule, and that's not likely to happen.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

I am having trouble finding an explanation in the Rules Book.

In contrast an errant pass that does not touch other players, but is secured by the passing player, is a travel. Because a pass attempt is not a loss of control... hmmm?

No, this is not "a travel."

Read the definition of traveling. Traveling is moving the pivot foot outside prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball. With one exception, you cannot travel if you're not holding the ball. That is why neither of your examples is traveling.

[Coltdoggs]

If ever questioned on this...I've always simply stated...every player on the floor may rebound a shot attmept.

That usually ends all questions...if they say "It didn't hit anything...", I simply repeat it...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Well, that's no fun. "Because I said so," is so my Dad...

The difference is, if you want to go with this analogy, the referees aren't Dad. They're the babysitter. So, just as "Because your Dad said so," works for the babysitter, "Because the rule says so" works for the coach.

There isn't time to go into a rules discussion with a coach, even once, let alone the multiple times that will be required once you open that door. If you feel you must say anything, Coltdog's statement should work. If it doesn't, put the ball in play.

There isn't time to have a rules discussion with a coach, let a lone a discussion of why the rules committee made a certain decision. That door should be locked.

[rgncjn]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, this is not "a travel."

Read the definition of traveling. Traveling is moving the pivot foot outside prescribed limits while HOLDING the ball. With one exception, you cannot travel if you're not holding the ball. That is why neither of your examples is traveling.

This is a divine answer.