Closely guarded clarification

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The reason that we don't accept your word is that you are incorrect. Sorry that you won't accept that.

I accept that you do not agree. And I have no problem with that.

This is a simple and common situation. A player is dribbling, closely guarded, and moves behind a screen, and comes out the other side a second or two later. Simple question: does the count end or continue?

Yet, there is no single case book play that deals with it. I cite the plain language of the rule. You cite case book plays that do not directly address this regular occurance. As I said, I have been instructed repeatedly that the count ends when the screen intervenes.

I have read the cases you cite...and others. I can find nothing to make me question the interpreter that has instructed me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Yet, there is no single case book play that deals with it.

This case play certainly makes it clear that a closely guarded count continues when there are players between the guard and the player with the ball, even in the most extreme of circumstances.
SCREENING TEAMMATES
9.10.1 SITUATION D: Team A, while in possession of the ball in its frontcourt: (a) positions four players parallel with the sideline and they pass the ball from one to another with their arms reaching beyond the sideline plane; or (b) has four teammates surround dribbler A1. In both (a) and (b), the opponents are unable to get close to the ball. RULING: This is considered to be a closely-guarded situation and a violation in five seconds in both (a) and (b), if any B player is within 6 feet of the ball or within 6 feet of the screening teammates and is attempting to gain control of the ball. Preventing opponents from getting to the ball by using screening teammates becomes a violation in five seconds if the opponents are attempting to gain control.

How can you dispute that? The NFHS comment is very clear here.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This case play certainly makes it clear that a closely guarded count continues when there are players between the guard and the player with the ball, even in the most extreme of circumstances.
....
How can you dispute that? The NFHS comment is very clear here.

Because both the rule and the casebook refer to "teammates" (plural.)

Your citation is about the extrme...when many teammates (the casebook says four; the rule simply says "teammates") are involved. There is no casebook play...or any rule...that says the count continues if a single screening teammate is involved.

As others have said, the NCAA rule is crystal clear and says the count stops. The Fed rule is murky...and subject to all this debate. I am not the rules interpreter for my board, so I follow his instruction. I have disagreed with his rulings in the past...and probably will again. But on this play...in my games...I will end the count when a single player screen comes between the defender and the dribbler.

[inigo montoya]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Because both the rule and the casebook refer to "teammates" (plural.)

Your citation is about the extrme...when many teammates (the casebook says four; the rule simply says "teammates") are involved. There is no casebook play...or any rule...that says the count continues if a single screening teammate is involved.

As others have said, the NCAA rule is crystal clear and says the count stops. The Fed rule is murky...and subject to all this debate. I am not the rules interpreter for my board, so I follow his instruction. I have disagreed with his rulings in the past...and probably will again. But on this play...in my games...I will end the count when a single player screen comes between the defender and the dribbler.

So four teammates can't cause a closely-guarded count to end, but one can? If A1 is screened by 1 teammates, with B1 within 6 feet, there is no count. But if A1's three remaining teammates show up, then the count begins? That's absurd.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I accept that you do not agree. And I have no problem with that.

This is a simple and common situation. A player is dribbling, closely guarded, and moves behind a screen, and comes out the other side a second or two later. Simple question: does the count end or continue?

Yet, there is no single case book play that deals with it. I cite the plain language of the rule. You cite case book plays that do not directly address this regular occurance. As I said, I have been instructed repeatedly that the count ends when the screen intervenes.

I have read the cases you cite...and others. I can find nothing to make me question the interpreter that has instructed me.

Think you and your interpreter need to relook at the rule book closely

1) if any B player is within 6 feet of the ball or within 6 feet of the screening teammates and is attempting to gain control of the ball. Preventing opponents from getting to the ball by using screening teammates becomes a violation in five seconds if the opponents are attempting to gain control.

2) Multiple defenders. The count should continue even if there is a defensive switch, provided the six-foot distance is maintained. There is no requirement for the defensive player to remain the same during the count as long as the offensive player is closely guarded throughout.

Normally in a screening situation (unless I ve missed some basic basketball,
1) The defender either goes around the screen and continues to guard the player and as long as he wiithin six feet (of the dribbler) or the screener and continues to guard it is a violation

2) There is a defensive switch and as long as both defenders maintained the 6 feet the count continues. Some may like the NCAA rule better, but for now until the rule is changed it is the rule.

This may sound terrible, but this is what gets us in trouble. If we make stuff up that just aint there we contribute to the myths and the "inconsistency" that coaches $itch about"

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Think you and your interpreter need to relook at the rule book closely

1) if any B player is within 6 feet of the ball or within 6 feet of the screening teammates and is attempting to gain control of the ball. Preventing opponents from getting to the ball by using screening teammates becomes a violation in five seconds if the opponents are attempting to gain control.

2) Multiple defenders. The count should continue even if there is a defensive switch, provided the six-foot distance is maintained. There is no requirement for the defensive player to remain the same during the count as long as the offensive player is closely guarded throughout.

Normally in a screening situation (unless I ve missed some basic basketball,
1) The defender either goes around the screen and continues to guard the player and as long as he wiithin six feet (of the dribbler) or the screener and continues to guard it is a violation

2) There is a defensive switch and as long as both defenders maintained the 6 feet the count continues. Some may like the NCAA rule better, but for now until the rule is changed it is the rule.

This may sound terrible, but this is what gets us in trouble. If we make stuff up that just aint there we contribute to the myths and the "inconsistency" that coaches $itch about"

DGP!!! Darn good post.