If you are the R

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I am, it seems, a low level official. I am at the level that I choose to work and have no ambition to reach the "next level." This is true even if advancing to the next level does not mean protecting the stars, and throwing fouls at the 10th guy off the bench because nobody cares about him, as insinuated by some here who dwell at higher levels.

Can you find the line and verse where anyone said a thing about "protecting stars?" Where was that said? No one even said that, you are just making it up because you have a Pollyanna way of thinking. I bet you believe that the best game is never to be noticed either?

Originally Posted by just another ref

There are many things that I do not understand from my low level. But one thing that I do understand is that it is difficult to talk down to someone when you are sadly lacking in basic communication skills.

You said you have never attended camp. That just boggles the mind that you can be officiating for about 5 years and never attend a camp and I am the one that has a lack of understanding? I find that rather hilarious.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Can you find the line and verse where anyone said a thing about "protecting stars?" Where was that said? No one even said that, you are just making it up because you have a Pollyanna way of thinking.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

.....if you have 3 or 4 fouls on a player (star player or valued player), you better make that 5th one a good one and not call something you have not been calling the rest of the game or give a cheap one.

This may require a translator between high and low levels officials, but that sounds a lot like protecting the star to me.

[Coach Bill]

Every time my team has a wide foul differential in our favor (e.g., 8 for them, 1 for us), I am not happy. Almost invariably, the other coach complains about the differential. And, almost invariably, it gets close to evened up, even though it appears to me that the other team has not decreased their level of fouling and we have not increased our level of fouling. It could be my imagination, though. Just once, I'd like to hear a ref respond, "That's because you're fouling, and they're not". I have to admit that when the foul differential is not in my favor, I'll often point it out as well.

And, I would definitely call a ref on why he needs to know that one of the other team's players has four fouls. To me, it can only mean that he's gonna call fouls for that guy differently.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Every time my team has a wide foul differential in our favor (e.g., 8 for them, 1 for us), I am not happy. Almost invariably, the other coach complains about the differential. And, almost invariably, it gets close to evened up, even though it appears to me that the other team has not decreased their level of fouling and we have not increased our level of fouling.

Obviously, I've never worked your games.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Every time my team has a wide foul differential in our favor (e.g., 8 for them, 1 for us), I am not happy.

Why? Do you not recognize that your team may be superior of the other team, or that the other team has been coached incorrectly? You should be not happy if the game is inconsistenly called, but statistically speaking, you will be involved in games with lopsided foul counts. Either play better defense or expect the other team to play better defense. Good teams adapt.

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

And, I would definitely call a ref on why he needs to know that one of the other team's players has four fouls. To me, it can only mean that he's gonna call fouls for that guy differently.

What do you think of an official that always knows the status of the arrow? If they correct, and perhaps even overrule the visible arrow, does it mean that they are calling a held ball differently from occurance to occurance? It's about preventing mistakes.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If they correct, and perhaps even overrule the visible arrow........

What does this mean? How do you overrule the visible arrow?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What doe this mean? How do you overrule the visible arrow?

If the arrow (that everyone can see) is pointing blue, and you know that it's red's turn for the AP throw-in, then when you are voicing who's ball it is, you really should be explaining why you're not following the device that is used for all participants to see who gets the next ball.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If the arrow (that everyone can see) is pointing blue, and you know that it's red's turn for the AP throw-in, then when you are voicing who's ball it is, you really should be explaining why you're not following the device that is used for all participants to see who gets the next ball.

Are there three teams playing? When does white ever get the ball?

Ok, carry on.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

What do you think of an official that always knows the status of the arrow? If they correct, and perhaps even overrule the visible arrow, does it mean that they are calling a held ball differently from occurance to occurance? It's about preventing mistakes.

If you're not going to call a foul differently from occurrence to occurrence either, then what mistakes can you prevent just by knowing that a player has 4 fouls?

[TD21]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you're not going to call a foul differently from occurrence to occurrence either, then what mistakes can you prevent just by knowing that a player has 4 fouls?

I have a question about this, since it seems so common place and needed to me. Are there that many officials out there that don't know foul counts, time on the clock, directional arrow, what the teams are running and what the players on the floor can and can't do? I would think that officiating a game like this would be like doing taxes without have W-2's 1099's and not knowing how to add. It can't be done correctly if you don't have all the information and you don't know how to use it. This information, in my opinion is just as important as knowing the rules and how to apply them. I'm not saying you need to do all this stuff to get through a game, but I am saying that you should be aware of these things if you want officiate the game the right way. It helps so much.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by TD21

. It can't be done correctly if you don't have all the information and you don't know how to use it.

That's a really broad term.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TD21

I have a question about this, since it seems so common place and needed to me. Are there that many officials out there that don't know foul counts, time on the clock, directional arrow, what the teams are running and what the players on the floor can and can't do? I would think that officiating a game like this would be like doing taxes without have W-2's 1099's and not knowing how to add. It can't be done correctly if you don't have all the information and you don't know how to use it. This information, in my opinion is just as important as knowing the rules and how to apply them. I'm not saying you need to do all this stuff to get through a game, but I am saying that you should be aware of these things if you want officiate the game the right way. It helps so much.

Some information can be useful to an official. That certainly might include time left on the clock, what the teams are running and what the players can do, as well as other things. Knowing who has the arrow is only relevant if you mistrust your table personnel to properly keep track. Some information however is NEVER needed to officiate a game properly. That information includes how many fouls each player has committed. Knowing that information is of absolutely no value to an official ever imo.

Does that answer your question?

Btw, how would knowing how many fouls a player has help you officiate the "right" way?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you're not going to call a foul differently from occurrence to occurrence either, then what mistakes can you prevent just by knowing that a player has 4 fouls?

See my first post in this thread.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

See my first post in this thread.

I did, and it still didn't answer the question. So, please humor me.....

What mistakes can you prevent by knowing that a player has four fouls?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This may require a translator between high and low levels officials, but that sounds a lot like protecting the star to me.

Knowledge and protection are two different things. I want to know when a team's next foul is going to put us in the bonus, not sure that translates to prevention from that having. I want to know something like that so I can get our shooter on that foul if necessary. If that is a hard concept to understand, you are right you do need some translation.

Peace