Delay to the nth degree

[Nevadaref]

Well, Ralph, you have once again opened your mouth without having a clue to whom you are speaking. Your lack of respect for the knowledge and abilities of others is astonishing.

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Directed at Padgett, who is the supervisor of officials for this rec league and has likely officiated more games at this level than anyone else on the forum (perhaps even the west coast). Now who has a better idea of when multiple technical fouls are appropriate in this rec league?

Originally Posted by Ralph

IMO the referees did. Why, after the first technical (2 delay violations), didn't you use some game management and pull the coaches together and give them a few seconds to instruct their kids? These were 7th grade rec kids that MAYBE practice one a week and play 12 games a year (if they are like rec kids in my area).

Originally Posted by Ralph

Well, even given what you said, I would NEVER call 9 delays in a 7th grade rec game when no advantage was gained. I think you were negligent in game management techniques, not rules enforcement. For the reach through I would back the defender up a couple feet and educate the inbounder that he can go back as far as he wanted. For slight reach throughs - I wouldn't even worry. For the touching the ball after the basket I would simply start the 5 second count after the team secured the ball unless you are telling me they swatted it far away. If they kept swatting it far away and completely went over the line on reach throughs to the point of obstructing the inbounder's view, etc., then you just have a team full of rejects. But if other refs don;t have this problem with them then I would look in the mirror.

Directed at Brandan89, who really does work at the HS level and has for three years now.

Originally Posted by Ralph

With all due respect, officiating games at 12, 13, 14 years old is not applicable to subvarsity experience with an older, more experienced official. Start counting when you have done your first HS game.

Originally Posted by Ralph

You have been calling HS games since you were 14? So a 14 year old ninth grader is officiating 14 year old 9th graders in interscholastic games? Unlikely.

Originally Posted by Ralph

Again, a 17 year old calling JV (17 year olds) basketball. There must be a huge shortage of officials there.

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Now I strongly suggest that you start having some consideration for the source before you start blasting away. It just may turn out that the original source knows more about the situation than you do.


JR, of course he claims to be a very experienced and successful official.

Originally Posted by Ralph

When you have 15 years, 4 substate, and 2 state finals under your belt you can lecture me about "what you have learned". Until that time I suggest you keep your secrets for other 17 year olds.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Well, Ralph, you have once again opened your mouth without having a clue to whom you are speaking. Your lack of respect for the knowledge and abilities of others is astonishing. Their abilities are quite evident from this subject at least.
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Directed at Padgett, who is the supervisor of officials for this rec league and has likely officiated more games at this level than anyone else on the forum (perhaps even the west coast). Now who has a better idea of when multiple technical fouls are appropriate in this rec league? Just because he is a supervisor of officials means nothing. I guess the Peter principle is in effect...




Directed at Brandan89, who really does work at the HS level and has for three years now. OOOH three whole years? wow.


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Now I strongly suggest that you start having some consideration for the source before you start blasting away. It just may turn out that the original source knows more about the situation than you do. Then again, they may not... he posted a comment and I disagreed with his approach and agreed with the coach. YOUR lack of respect for MY opinion is what is astonishing.

JR, of course he claims to be a very experienced and successful official.

Let go of the past and move on, my son. We are now talking about someone who doesn't have the common sense to back a kid (or kids) up two feet to prevent him from having to make a point every throw-in. You really have to WANT to call technicals to let this easy to fix violation (in a REC league mind you) happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

By the way, I didn't read where anyone has called or even witnessed NINE technicals in one game in their life. That says it all.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Let go of the past and move on, my son. We are now talking about someone who doesn't have the common sense to back a kid (or kids) up two feet to prevent him from having to make a point every throw-in.

How do you know he didn't? What if the infractions were after made baskets when there isn't the chance to bak them up? If the kids didn't learn after the first or second T, what makes you think they'd learn after another "warning?"

You really have to WANT to call technicals to let this easy to fix violation (in a REC league mind you) happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

If the purpose of this particular rec league is better served by ignoring (or otherwise changing) this particular rule, then I'm sure it would have been changed. (See "no press" or "man-to-man defense only" or "everyone must play" rules for common examples) Given that it hasn't, it should be enforced.

By the way, I didn't read where anyone has called or even witnessed NINE technicals in one game in their life. That says it all.

Right. That's why it was worthy of posting. A post like "I called both a travelling violation and a shooting foul in one game today" wouldn't be that interesting (unless, perhaps, those were the only calls of the day).

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

How do you know he didn't? He never said he did or stated that he constantly tried to prevent the infraction through game management.
What if the infractions were after made baskets when there isn't the chance to bak them up? If the kids didn't learn after the first or second T, what makes you think they'd learn after another "warning?" NINE technicals plus one warning = 10 opportunities to NOT call a T. He gave up or tried to prove he was the master of the court.


If the purpose of this particular rec league is better served by ignoring (or otherwise changing) this particular rule, then I'm sure it would have been changed. (See "no press" or "man-to-man defense only" or "everyone must play" rules for common examples) Given that it hasn't, it should be enforced. Did he call every single infraction or did he use judgment and let some go? HMMM. Why is this different? I seriously doubt he called EVERY travel or carry in this rec game of 12 year olds.


Right. That's why it was worthy of posting. A post like "I called both a travelling violation and a shooting foul in one game today" wouldn't be that interesting (unless, perhaps, those were the only calls of the day). It was worthy of posting to show everyone how NOT to do it.

Wow.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Wow.

Sorry, Ralph, your "logic" doesn't fly.

According to the OP, about 1/2 of the Ts were for interfering with the ball after a basket and the other 1/2 were for breaking the plane. (one was 5 and the other was 4). I'm "sure" Mark didn't call a T everytime the ball was just touched after going through the basket -- he knows the rule. There's no way to "warn" against this infraction each time it's about to happen. Likewise, I'm sure he (and his partner) didn't call the T for just "barely" breaking the plane. And, I'm "sure" he called every egregious travelling and carry. (okay, I'm less sure on this one, because calls get missed.)

IOW, s*** happens -- and it happened in this game.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sorry, Ralph, your "logic" doesn't fly.

According to the OP, about 1/2 of the Ts were for interfering with the ball after a basket and the other 1/2 were for breaking the plane. (one was 5 and the other was 4). I'm "sure" Mark didn't call a T everytime the ball was just touched after going through the basket -- he knows the rule. There's no way to "warn" against this infraction each time it's about to happen. Likewise, I'm sure he (and his partner) didn't call the T for just "barely" breaking the plane. And, I'm "sure" he called every egregious travelling and carry. (okay, I'm less sure on this one, because calls get missed.)

IOW, s*** happens -- and it happened in this game.

You're absolutely correct, Bob. Sometimes they batted the ball away, sometimes they caught it, held it and even walked a few steps with it. In fact, one time one of them held the ball and pulled it away from the kid on the other team as he tried to take it so he could go and inbound!

As far as breaking the plane, they waved their hands way over the line even thought the inbounder was far enough back that they couldn't come close to touching the ball and twice, they even tried to reach over and "face guard" the inbounder! They also jumped over the line once and I mean really jumped.

The weird thing was, on offense, they committed very few turnovers. They had a point guard that was an excellent ball handler and he pretty much ran their offense the entire game.

Unfortunately, they needed to have the wax cleaned out of their ears. They just never listened and they certainly didn't learn. After a few calls, even their own parents were yelling at them.

Oh yeah - we got zero flak from coaches and/or parents. After the game, the two coaches shook hands. The other coach said to this team's coach, "Whatever was going on with your guys today?" He responded, "I have no idea, but I'm going to find out at our next practice and stop it."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ralph

By the way, I didn't read where anyone has called or even witnessed NINE technicals in one game in their life. That says it all.

My partner and I called eleven(11) on a head coach once. He had 6 and I had 5. At that time there was no limit on the number of T's that a coach/player could receive. That coach had a terrible team, and he wanted to get tossed. We told him that if we had to suffer watching his crappy team, then so would he.

The point is that you don't IGNORE righteous technical fouls when they occur. Let me change that wording.....we don't ignore righteous technical fouls when they occur. You obviously do.

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]My partner and I called eleven(11) on a head coach once. He had 6 and I had 5. Of course you did. from all the posts I have seen from you there is nothing you haven't accomplished - I guess you and Mr. Hightower are tight!


At that time there was no limit on the number of T's that a coach/player could receive. That coach had a terrible team, and he wanted to get tossed. We told him that if we had to suffer watching his crappy team, then so would he.

The point is that you don't IGNORE righteous technical fouls when they occur. Let me change that wording.....we don't ignore righteous technical fouls when they occur. You obviously do. Yes, I use judgment - what is good for a HS V game is not necessarily the same call for a 12 year old rec game. if you disagree with that then you are an idiot and need to actually ref a game or two instead of quoting the rulebook.[/QUOTE]

Buh Bye.