Delay to the nth degree

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Usual Saturday morning kids rec league schedule. First game (at 8:15, no less) of four was 7th grade boys. Team A got a delay warning for interfering with the ball after it went through the basket about 2 minutes into the game. A minute later, they got their second call for a boundary violation. This was right after my partner reminded them not to reach over the line. All in all, they got nine, count 'em nine, delay warnings that resulted in eight technicals. Five warnings were for interfering with the ball after a made basket, four were for boundary violations. The weird thing was that they never reached over the boundary and slapped the ball.

After one of the calls in the 3rd quarter, their assistant coach yelled at my partner that we were "being ridiculous". Mind you, not that their situation was ridiculous, but that we were. My partner teed him up, so we had four free throws that time. My partner wasn't overreacting - this league has a zero tolerance policy for coaches yelling at officials.

Oh yeah - they lost by 7. Gee, I wonder what cost them the game?

IMO the referees did. Why, after the first technical (2 delay violations), didn't you use some game management and pull the coaches together and give them a few seconds to instruct their kids? These were 7th grade rec kids that MAYBE practice one a week and play 12 games a year (if they are like rec kids in my area).

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Ralph

IMO the referees did. Why, after the first technical (2 delay violations), didn't you use some game management and pull the coaches together and give them a few seconds to instruct their kids? These were 7th grade rec kids that MAYBE practice one a week and play 12 games a year (if they are like rec kids in my area).

Are you nuts? We warned them over and over. The coaches yelled at them before every OOB play not to reach over. They yelled at them in their huddles numerous times not to touch the ball after it went through the net. These kids practice twice a week and this league starts at 3rd grade. Most of these kids are in their 5th year of playing. Their behavior in this game is just something I can't explain. This is the 15th year I've worked this league and I've never seen anything like it before. And, if it was our "fault", why didn't the other team have even a single warning the entire game?

Ya' know, sometimes kids just don't listen and/or learn. That doesn't mean it's the fault of the officials and I resent your implication that we were negligent.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Are you nuts? We warned them over and over. The coaches yelled at them before every OOB play not to reach over. They yelled at them in their huddles numerous times not to touch the ball after it went through the net. These kids practice twice a week and this league starts at 3rd grade. Most of these kids are in their 5th year of playing. Their behavior in this game is just something I can't explain. This is the 15th year I've worked this league and I've never seen anything like it before. And, if it was our "fault", why didn't the other team have even a single warning the entire game?

Ya' know, sometimes kids just don't listen and/or learn. That doesn't mean it's the fault of the officials and I resent your implication that we were negligent.

Well, even given what you said, I would NEVER call 9 delays in a 7th grade rec game when no advantage was gained. I think you were negligent in game management techniques, not rules enforcement. For the reach through I would back the defender up a couple feet and educate the inbounder that he can go back as far as he wanted. For slight reach throughs - I wouldn't even worry. For the touching the ball after the basket I would simply start the 5 second count after the team secured the ball unless you are telling me they swatted it far away. If they kept swatting it far away and completely went over the line on reach throughs to the point of obstructing the inbounder's view, etc., then you just have a team full of rejects. But if other refs don;t have this problem with them then I would look in the mirror.

[Smitty]

Wow...

[26 Year Gap]

JMO=Old School=Ralph=KSref=[whatever the most recent one is]

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

JMO=Old School=Ralph=KSref=[whatever the most recent one is]

Isn't ralph the guy you call after your 14th beer? rrrrrrrrraaaaaaaallllph!!

Kinda fits here.

[26 Year Gap]

He was a college acquaintance, but not necessarily a friend.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Ralph

...For the reach through I would back the defender up a couple feet and educate the inbounder that he can go back as far as he wanted. For slight reach throughs - I wouldn't even worry. For the touching the ball after the basket I would simply start the 5 second count after the team secured the ball unless you are telling me they swatted it far away. If they kept swatting it far away and completely went over the line on reach throughs to the point of obstructing the inbounder's view, etc., then you just have a team full of rejects...

So your answer, as an official, is to instruct the OTHER team how to work around the violations instead of penalizing the offenders? Then maybe you should coach instead of officiate.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

So your answer, as an official, is to instruct the OTHER team how to work around the violations instead of penalizing the offenders? Then maybe you should coach instead of officiate.

Yes, to some degree (as my examples cite) when we are officiating a RECREATIONAL 7th GRADE league. This was not a COMPETITIVE league. RECREATIONAL leagues are educational by nature. If all parties involved (coaches and officials) are out there for the kids education of the sport, then 9 technicals would not be called. Period.

I wonder why the OP even posted this. He indicated that the coach thought he was "being ridiculous" and was internalizing that the coach probably blamed him for losing the game. Why would he do that if he was TOTALLY sure about his actions. Sounds like he wanted validation from members of this board.

Don't post something if you can't take opposing viewpoints.

[brandan89]

I guess now he would go on to say that he would never call traveling in a Jr. High Game and he would never call fouls in a Highschool Game. I guess this is how we all need to start calling if we want to make it to the play off's like this guy did.

Originally Posted by brandan89

I guess now he would go on to say that he would never call traveling in a Jr. High Game and he would never call fouls in a Highschool Game. I guess this is how we all need to start calling if we want to make it to the play off's like this guy did.

I don't call much traveling in a 3rd grade game, do you? Or do you call it with the same intensity and detail as a V game? Do you call technicals for this delay in a 3rd grade game? Nope. Judgment.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Yes, to some degree (as my examples cite) when we are officiating a RECREATIONAL 7th GRADE league. This was not a COMPETITIVE league. RECREATIONAL leagues are educational by nature. If all parties involved (coaches and officials) are out there for the kids education of the sport, then 9 technicals would not be called. Period.

I get it. Unsporting actions are just fine in rec leagues. We're just supposed to ignore them.

Great philosophy.

Again, are you an official?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I get it. Unsporting actions are just fine in rec leagues. We're just supposed to ignore them.

Great philosophy.

Again, are you an official?

No, we are supposed to use judgment. Yes, it IS a great philosophy. Maybe you should try it sometime if you believe NINE separate techicals in a 11 year old game is ever warranted.

I seriously doubt an 11 year old had evil unsporting intentions. Give us a break. Preventive officiating - maybe you heard of it? A simple "move back" would have kept the game going, and everyone would have enjoyed their hour - instead of robocop commadeering the game.

I wonder if this team has ever received THREE technicals in one game from any other pair of officials, much less NINE? That should also tell you something about this crew.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Yes, to some degree (as my examples cite) when we are officiating a RECREATIONAL 7th GRADE league. This was not a COMPETITIVE league. RECREATIONAL leagues are educational by nature. If all parties involved (coaches and officials) are out there for the kids education of the sport, then 9 technicals would not be called. Period.

I wonder why the OP even posted this. He indicated that the coach thought he was "being ridiculous" and was internalizing that the coach probably blamed him for losing the game. Why would he do that if he was TOTALLY sure about his actions. Sounds like he wanted validation from members of this board.

Don't post something if you can't take opposing viewpoints.

Padgett's been around here for 8 years. We enjoy his stories.

Why would you join last month and already act like you are acting?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Padgett's been around here for 8 years. We enjoy his stories.

Why would you join last month and already act like you are acting?

Thanks, Rich. Glad my stories are at least of interest. BTW - despite what "Ralph" surmises, I am always "totally sure of my actions".

Well, at least the ones that happen on the court.