Delay to the nth degree

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

This was their second game together in history as a team. This league has a draft every year so the teams do not stay the same year after year. I did check with the guys who did their first game the week before and they said they issued five technicals for the same reason.

Also, have you noticed the opinions on this board are going about a bazillion to one against your ridiculous position? I'll say it once again, educating kids as to what rules are is best accomplished if you invoke the rule and then explain it, not ignoring the rule. Try to get that through your obviously too thick skull.

Also, if the league wasn't happy with the way I officiate, they have a strange way of showing it by continually asking me to be the supervisor of officials year after year.

What group of officials do you supervise?

A good friend of mine has a saying Ralph should consider:

When it's you against the world, back the world.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Padgett's been around here for 8 years. We enjoy his stories.

Why would you join last month and already act like you are acting?

Thanks, Rich. Glad my stories are at least of interest. BTW - despite what "Ralph" surmises, I am always "totally sure of my actions".

Well, at least the ones that happen on the court.

[BillyMac]

A few weeks ago, in a sixth, and seventh, grade Catholic school game, I made a crossing the boundary line delay of game call with seconds left in a tied game. It was a reaction call, very obvious, and, at the time, I didn't think twice about the call, until I realized that this was the second delay call of the game, against the same team, and that the technical foul shots, one was eventually made, would give the one point victory to the other team. Nobody, players, coaches, or fans, complained about the call. I went from a reaction call, to feeling a little too "officious", until my partner pointed out to me that it was the same player who got the first, and second, crossing the boundary line delay of game call. I'm still not sure that I feel 100% "great" about the second call, but I don't feel too badly about it either. Players eventually have to learn the rules, and by making calls like this, they will certainly learn the rules and play the game as intended.

[Nevadaref]

Well, Ralph, you have once again opened your mouth without having a clue to whom you are speaking. Your lack of respect for the knowledge and abilities of others is astonishing.

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Directed at Padgett, who is the supervisor of officials for this rec league and has likely officiated more games at this level than anyone else on the forum (perhaps even the west coast). Now who has a better idea of when multiple technical fouls are appropriate in this rec league?

Originally Posted by Ralph

IMO the referees did. Why, after the first technical (2 delay violations), didn't you use some game management and pull the coaches together and give them a few seconds to instruct their kids? These were 7th grade rec kids that MAYBE practice one a week and play 12 games a year (if they are like rec kids in my area).

Originally Posted by Ralph

Well, even given what you said, I would NEVER call 9 delays in a 7th grade rec game when no advantage was gained. I think you were negligent in game management techniques, not rules enforcement. For the reach through I would back the defender up a couple feet and educate the inbounder that he can go back as far as he wanted. For slight reach throughs - I wouldn't even worry. For the touching the ball after the basket I would simply start the 5 second count after the team secured the ball unless you are telling me they swatted it far away. If they kept swatting it far away and completely went over the line on reach throughs to the point of obstructing the inbounder's view, etc., then you just have a team full of rejects. But if other refs don;t have this problem with them then I would look in the mirror.

Directed at Brandan89, who really does work at the HS level and has for three years now.

Originally Posted by Ralph

With all due respect, officiating games at 12, 13, 14 years old is not applicable to subvarsity experience with an older, more experienced official. Start counting when you have done your first HS game.

Originally Posted by Ralph

You have been calling HS games since you were 14? So a 14 year old ninth grader is officiating 14 year old 9th graders in interscholastic games? Unlikely.

Originally Posted by Ralph

Again, a 17 year old calling JV (17 year olds) basketball. There must be a huge shortage of officials there.

=========================

Now I strongly suggest that you start having some consideration for the source before you start blasting away. It just may turn out that the original source knows more about the situation than you do.


JR, of course he claims to be a very experienced and successful official.

Originally Posted by Ralph

When you have 15 years, 4 substate, and 2 state finals under your belt you can lecture me about "what you have learned". Until that time I suggest you keep your secrets for other 17 year olds.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

A good friend of mine has a saying Ralph should consider:

When it's you against the world, back the world.

And since he is the only official in the history of the game who has issued NINE separate technicals in one game, I guess it's HIM against the world.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ralph

And since he is the only official in the history of the game who has issued NINE separate technicals in one game, I guess it's HIM against the world.

I recognize that every situation is unique and consider the source. You are the one floating on an island here and if we're lucky, it'll sink.

Isn't it about time for you to post your resume again?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Well, Ralph, you have once again opened your mouth without having a clue to whom you are speaking. Your lack of respect for the knowledge and abilities of others is astonishing. Their abilities are quite evident from this subject at least.
==============================
Directed at Padgett, who is the supervisor of officials for this rec league and has likely officiated more games at this level than anyone else on the forum (perhaps even the west coast). Now who has a better idea of when multiple technical fouls are appropriate in this rec league? Just because he is a supervisor of officials means nothing. I guess the Peter principle is in effect...




Directed at Brandan89, who really does work at the HS level and has for three years now. OOOH three whole years? wow.


=========================

Now I strongly suggest that you start having some consideration for the source before you start blasting away. It just may turn out that the original source knows more about the situation than you do. Then again, they may not... he posted a comment and I disagreed with his approach and agreed with the coach. YOUR lack of respect for MY opinion is what is astonishing.

JR, of course he claims to be a very experienced and successful official.

Let go of the past and move on, my son. We are now talking about someone who doesn't have the common sense to back a kid (or kids) up two feet to prevent him from having to make a point every throw-in. You really have to WANT to call technicals to let this easy to fix violation (in a REC league mind you) happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

By the way, I didn't read where anyone has called or even witnessed NINE technicals in one game in their life. That says it all.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I recognize that every situation is unique and consider the source. You are the one floating on an island here and if we're lucky, it'll sink.

Isn't it about time for you to post your resume again?

Isn't it about time you at least admit that NINE technicals in one game is a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence? I wonder if the game was REALLY that far out on the fringes. Hmmmmm. Or maybe it was just RoboRef.

BTW, in 7th grade I was 11. So what if these kids were 12. It was a REC league where the refs and coaches are supposed to facilitate growth. All RoboRef did was create animosity, take away an enjoyable hour, all to prove a point. Unfortunately that point was that refs are bad guys.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

A good friend of mine has a saying Ralph should consider:

When it's you against the world, back the world.

We'd still be walking if the Wright brothers took that approach.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ralph

Let go of the past and move on, my son. We are now talking about someone who doesn't have the common sense to back a kid (or kids) up two feet to prevent him from having to make a point every throw-in.

How do you know he didn't? What if the infractions were after made baskets when there isn't the chance to bak them up? If the kids didn't learn after the first or second T, what makes you think they'd learn after another "warning?"

You really have to WANT to call technicals to let this easy to fix violation (in a REC league mind you) happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

If the purpose of this particular rec league is better served by ignoring (or otherwise changing) this particular rule, then I'm sure it would have been changed. (See "no press" or "man-to-man defense only" or "everyone must play" rules for common examples) Given that it hasn't, it should be enforced.

By the way, I didn't read where anyone has called or even witnessed NINE technicals in one game in their life. That says it all.

Right. That's why it was worthy of posting. A post like "I called both a travelling violation and a shooting foul in one game today" wouldn't be that interesting (unless, perhaps, those were the only calls of the day).

[Mark Padgett]

News flash from Fox television network:

The title of the quiz show, "Are You Smarter Than Billy Packer?", originally named "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?" has now officially been changed to "Are You Smarter Than Ralph?" We expect everyone will win, even unborn children and vegetables.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Ralph

We'd still be walking if the Wright brothers took that approach.

Again, the world wasn't against the Wright Brothers, but why let small facts stand in the way of making your lam point??

Wasn't it Ralph himself who said (earlier in this thread) "Why post if you can't handle different viewpoints?" If Ralph wants to blast away at someone, shouldn't little Ralphie expect to get some blasting back??

And I think Ralph is confused - he was 11 when he finally got out of the SECOND grade, not seventh.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ralph

By the way, I didn't read where anyone has called or even witnessed NINE technicals in one game in their life. That says it all.

My partner and I called eleven(11) on a head coach once. He had 6 and I had 5. At that time there was no limit on the number of T's that a coach/player could receive. That coach had a terrible team, and he wanted to get tossed. We told him that if we had to suffer watching his crappy team, then so would he.

The point is that you don't IGNORE righteous technical fouls when they occur. Let me change that wording.....we don't ignore righteous technical fouls when they occur. You obviously do.

[MCJB Ump]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Actually, I have another sore spot, but no matter how much I beg her, Juulie won't rub it for me.

CLASSIC!!!!

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

How do you know he didn't? He never said he did or stated that he constantly tried to prevent the infraction through game management.
What if the infractions were after made baskets when there isn't the chance to bak them up? If the kids didn't learn after the first or second T, what makes you think they'd learn after another "warning?" NINE technicals plus one warning = 10 opportunities to NOT call a T. He gave up or tried to prove he was the master of the court.


If the purpose of this particular rec league is better served by ignoring (or otherwise changing) this particular rule, then I'm sure it would have been changed. (See "no press" or "man-to-man defense only" or "everyone must play" rules for common examples) Given that it hasn't, it should be enforced. Did he call every single infraction or did he use judgment and let some go? HMMM. Why is this different? I seriously doubt he called EVERY travel or carry in this rec game of 12 year olds.


Right. That's why it was worthy of posting. A post like "I called both a travelling violation and a shooting foul in one game today" wouldn't be that interesting (unless, perhaps, those were the only calls of the day). It was worthy of posting to show everyone how NOT to do it.

Wow.