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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 09:49am
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Rule 10, NCAA

You may not have noticed, but Rule 10 was completely re-organized in this year's NCAA book. Last year, sections 1-19 dealt with technical fouls and fighting and then personal fouls were treated in sections 20-23. This year, personal fouls are section 1.

Last year, the technical fouls were listed in sections that dealt with indirect T's then indirect T's on fans, then direct T's on players, direct T's on bench personnel, etc. This year, the technical fouls are categorized by "administrative", "player/substitute" and "bench". Then under each category, the PENALTY section tells you which articles are direct and which are indirect.

That stuff is kind of interesting (probably only to me, but that's ok), but that's not really the important part. The important part is the newly worded PENALTY sections in Section 3 and Section 4. Those penalty sections tell you which articles are direct and which are indirect. Then under the heading EJECTION, it says this:

Quote:
EJECTION: All technical fouls from Sections 3 (Player/Substitute Technicals and 4 (Bench Technicals) shall apply toward ejection when the following have been assessed: a maximum of two DIRECT technical fouls, a combination of one DIRECT technical foul and two INDIRECT technical fouls or three INDIRECT technical fouls. When the foul is charged to the offender (if not the head coach) as a direct technical foul, it is also charged as an INDIRECT technical foul to the head coach. When the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him.
The technical fouls in Section 3 include unsportsmanlike acts by players, like cursing at the ref. According to this penalty section, the head coach should receive an indirect for that.

That can't be right, can it? Somebody would've made a big deal about it in the pre-season, wouldn't they? Any thoughts?
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 12:58pm
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I'm not sure what your question is...are you saying that the concept of a coach sharing in the penalty for bench T's is new? Because it's not. What might be new is that the term 'indirect technical foul' now applies to this case as it does under fed rules.

Here's what it says in 2007 ncaa book under 10-10, I've underlined what I believe is relevant

Quote:

Art. 4. All of the direct technical fouls mentioned in Section 9 of this rule
shall be assessed/charged to the offender, shall also be charged to the head
coach or co-head coaches
and shall count toward the team-foul total.
Art. 5. Two direct technical fouls assessed to bench personnel shall result
in ejection of the offender.
Art. 6. The head coach or co-head coaches shall be ejected after (a) two
direct technical fouls have been assessed to him, her or them, (b) three
bench direct technical fouls have been charged to his or her team or (c) a
combination of one direct technical foul and two bench technical fouls have
been assessed to him, her or them.
So...same idea under different terminology.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 01:13pm
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So, charge an indirect to the coach when it is directly charged to a player. count as one towards team foul.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 01:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I'm not sure what your question is...
Obviously, I wasn't clear enough. The PENALTY section applies to ALL the technical fouls in Section 3 and Section 4. Section 3 includes PLAYER TECHNICALS for unsportsmanlike conduct.

IOW, you call a foul on PLAYER (not bench personnel) A1. He turns and says "You suck". You give A1 a direct T. The new PENALTY section says that you now also assess an indirect T to the head coach.

That is definitely NOT the same old concept. Was this an intentional change or did it slip past the editor?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 10:40am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Ok, I'm trying one more time. Is there no NCAA official out there who thinks this is a big deal?!?!

Player on the court curses at you, you T him and give an indirect to the coach. Nobody cares?
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 11:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Ok, I'm trying one more time. Is there no NCAA official out there who thinks this is a big deal?!?!

Player on the court curses at you, you T him and give an indirect to the coach. Nobody cares?
Relax fergawdsake.

Seems like they misworded the rewrite.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Obviously, I wasn't clear enough. The PENALTY section applies to ALL the technical fouls in Section 3 and Section 4. Section 3 includes PLAYER TECHNICALS for unsportsmanlike conduct.

IOW, you call a foul on PLAYER (not bench personnel) A1. He turns and says "You suck". You give A1 a direct T. The new PENALTY section says that you now also assess an indirect T to the head coach.

That is definitely NOT the same old concept. Was this an intentional change or did it slip past the editor?
WOW! This is a pretty big mistake by the editors! (Which we will assume it is a mistake)

This should be reported as soon as possible so that a notice can be sent out.

Good catch Scrapper!
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 12:52pm
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Scrappy-doo, check out the ESO website and see if there are any corrections on there. I just went and looked at the Rule 10 - Women Only section and it did not have any of that wording in there.

Last edited by rockyroad; Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 02:22pm.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 02:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Scrappy-doo, check out the ESO website and see if there are any corrections on there. I just went and looked at the Rule 10 - Women Only section and it did not have any of that wording in there.
I don't see anything on the ESO site about it at all, including the first bulletin. Also, I think the EJECTION section applies to both Men and Women. The PENALTY section is for Women only, but I think the EJECTION part applies to both. It talks about getting 2 T's to be ejected; but the PENALTY section doesn't make any mention of it. So I think the EJECTION section is meant for both.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 02:43pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Seems like they misworded the rewrite.
I agree and certainly hope that's the case. I would like to see a correction, though.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Scrappy-doo, check out the ESO website and see if there are any corrections on there. I just went and looked at the Rule 10 - Women Only section and it did not have any of that wording in there.
Hey Rocky was that a mistake that you just fixed....or do you know something that we don't
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