Coach Issues

[TheOracle]

CornDog, you are 100% correct. Once "balls" enters the eqaution, escalation is virtually unavoidable. The coach approaching after the game is inexcusable--however, better body language, choice or words, and tone of voice is probably what started the escalation here. You kick a call, it is best to admit it and take your medicine. Unless the whole gym hears a personal insult, you lose face by whacking somebody after you blow a call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

CornDog, you are 100% correct. Once "balls" enters the eqaution, escalation is virtually unavoidable. The coach approaching after the game is inexcusable--however, better body language, choice or words, and tone of voice is probably what started the escalation here. You kick a call, it is best to admit it and take your medicine. Unless the whole gym hears a personal insult, you lose face by whacking somebody after you blow a call.

You have absolutely no basis for making this judgment. None.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You kick a call, it is best to admit it and take your medicine. Unless the whole gym hears a personal insult, you lose face by whacking somebody after you blow a call.

Whacking somebody is a situation unto itself. Doesn't matter how many calls you blew before, it is nobody's job on that bench to have commentary about them, especially if they were straightened out properly, as in this case. If somebody needs to be whacked, whack 'em, whether it be before or after any other call.

[Adam]

To add to what JAR just said, it's not about losing or saving face. Seems rather selfish to me. If the coach earns a T, even if it's quietly, give it to him and move on with the game. We all have IWs, and yet we rarely have a coach turn into coach Kreshewewski over it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To add to what JAR just said, it's not about losing or saving face. Seems rather selfish to me. If the coach earns a T, even if it's quietly, give it to him and move on with the game. We all have IWs, and yet we rarely have a coach turn into coach Kreshewewski over it.

And to add to what Snaqs just said, bench decorum is a major POE at the NCAA level this year. It is also a continuing concern at the high school level, as evidenced by the numerous POE's issued by the FED in the last few years. They want officials to reduce unsporting behavior, not make excuses as to why they shouldn't deal with it.

Jmo.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You kick a call, it is best to admit it and take your medicine.

Taking your medicine is letting somebody on the bench who is NOT the head coach YELL at you without doing something about it?

Methinks you'd be better off looking to raise a new crop of testicles too....

Just one guy's 2 cents worth.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Unless the whole gym hears a personal insult, you lose face by whacking somebody after you blow a call.

I missed this comment first time around. Don't know how....it's so ridiculous. Are you really saying that if a coach makes derogatory comments to you, but only loud enough that you can hear him, you should ignore those comments? You're really advocating that we should ignore personal insults as long as they're made quietly?

Un...freaking...believable...

Lah me.......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I missed this comment first time around. Don't know how....it's so ridiculous. Are you really saying that if a coach makes derogatory comments to you, but only loud enough that you can hear him, you should ignore those comments? You're really advocating that we should ignore personal insults as long as they're made quietly?

Un...freaking...believable...

Lah me.......

Well, if they follow an officials error; you know, something particularly heinous like an inadvertent whistle for backcourt.

[Ignats75]

I didnt post much this summer and fall....tell me...is THeORacle just another name for the Old one who must not be named?????

[Adam]

He's off base just enough to make you wonder.

[CJRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I missed this comment first time around. Don't know how....it's so ridiculous. Are you really saying that if a coach makes derogatory comments to you, but only loud enough that you can hear him, you should ignore those comments? You're really advocating that we should ignore personal insults as long as they're made quietly?

Un...freaking...believable...

Lah me.......

I know what he's trying to get at here...that if you kick something that you should be a little more lenient towards the reaction of the coach...I don't think he's saying that you should ignore it all the time unless the whole gym hears it. I don't agree, but it's a common philosophy that I've encountered. If you screw up the coach can yell at you a little more than if you're right.

My problem with that is the coach almost always thinks you're wrong, so if you let him have at you once or twice you've given him the green light the rest of the way. Regardless of what happened prior to the coach's behavior, you have to address the behavior and if it merits a T then let him have it. You're not losing face...if a coach can't handle a missed call (which is a reality of the game) appropriately then he needs to be dealt with. His behavior serves as the model for his players who need to learn to play through it.

In regards to the OP, every official deals with coaches differently and we obviously were not there. Based on the OP, I guess I would not have addressed a comment, especially from the bench and in the event I did, I would never tell someone that they are wrong. They may very well be, but I would explain the correct rule/call and go with it. If the comment or reaction is bad enough then deal with it regardless of who it comes from.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CJRef

I know what he's trying to get at here...that if you kick something that you should be a little more lenient towards the reaction of the coach...I don't think he's saying that you should ignore it all the time unless the whole gym hears it. I don't agree, but it's a common philosophy that I've encountered.

TheOracle used the very specific description "personal insult". Now, it might be common philosophy where you officiate for officials to ignore "personal insults" at certain times, but it is rare in my area. Not many officials that I know will tolerate "personal insults" under any circumstances. Personally, I certainly won't.

[CJRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

TheOracle used the very specific description "personal insult". Now, it might be common philosophy where you officiate for officials to ignore "personal insults" at certain times, but it is rare in my area. Not many officials that I know will tolerate "personal insults" under any circumstances. Personally, I certainly won't.

Yeah I get your point with the "personal insult". I know what he was trying to get at it. Was not agreeing with him and didn't mention a "personal insult". I don't think that any official should ever put up with a "personal insult". I was trying to share a "similar" philosophy that I've encountered...if you screw up then you let the coach have a moment at your expense. And like I said before I think that philosophy, in addition to "personal insults" of course, is totally wrong. IMO if you kick a call and then let a coach walk all over you, you've lost more face than if you kick a call, pick yourself back-up and go on with the game. And if that means addressing a coaches behavior then do it. The rules do not differentiate between poor behavior after a kicked/bad call or poor behavior after a good call.

[Ignats75]

IMHO (My wife claims I should never use the letter H when I post )

Personal insults are Unsporting in nature and therefore qualify under the rules for a T no matter the circumstances. I don't consider myself T happy, but it seems to come to the fore in many threads that some of us don't like to or are afraid to issue them.