Coach Issues

[rngrck]

First of all, i'd like to know why the varsity coach was on the bench to begin with. Unless at pre game he was announced as assitant coach, I would have removed him.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by rngrck

First of all, i'd like to know why the varsity coach was on the bench to begin with. Unless at pre game he was announced as assitant coach, I would have removed him.

When is anyone "announced" as an assistant? Is this specific to a certain state?

As far as I know, it doesn't matter what he is, if he is on the bench then he is bench personnel and treated as such....do you treat the trainer differently than you treat an assistant coach?

[Corndog89]

Ichi...

First, let me say that I agree with everything other posters have said before me on this thread. There's no excuse for the coach confronting you after the game...he lost face and sounds like he couldn't deal with it and that now must be addressed with your association, state, etc. However......

Go back to the start of the confrontation...you started it when you dorked up with the IW. Not a major mistake and one easily corrected, but it was your mistake to start with (and we've all done similar "DOH's"). When the V coach started yelling that you had proceeded incorrectly (incorrectly, BTW) you had a choice to make and it sounds like you reacted defensively. Technically you were correct, but, IMO, you escalated the situation by immediately telling the V coach "You're wrong" and then directing the frosh coach to shut up his "assistant" and keep him in line. Again IMO, you put the frosh coach on a huge spot because it's rare the HS frosh coach who is an "equal" to the V head coach...the frosh coach invariably works for the V coach in some capacity and is unlikely to direct or stand up to the V coach. Now the V coach has been publically humiliated over a minor mistake in a freshman game and the proverbial molehill has grown into a mountain.

What would I have done? Being a freshman game, and even though the V coach was technically an assistant, I would have brought him and the frosh coach together and explained my mistake and that we're going POI per the rules (I don't have my rules book with me so I can't cite the exact rule). By treating the V coach (who, face it, would be my real target for pacification in light of my error) as the de facto guy-in-charge, it would probably prevent any further blow-ups. Call it game management, call it humility, call it real-politick, but I want the game to continue without unecessarily bringing on more and bigger problems. This should never have escalated into a pi$$ing contest between me and the V coach.

For me the toughest part of officiating is dealing with coaches, and when I let my emotions overcome detached calm and logic, that's when I start to have real problems. Just one guy's 2 cents worth.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Call it game management, call it humility, call it real-politick, but I want the game to continue without unecessarily bringing on more and bigger problems.

Or maybe call it a lack of balls....

Just one guy's two cent's worth.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Or maybe call it a lack of balls....

Just one guy's two cent's worth.

Ha ha how did I know this was coming?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Ha ha how did I know this was coming?

Well, hell.....

-official blows an accidental whistle
-officials corrects accidental whistle as per rules.
-a member of bench personnel who is NOT the head coach YELLS at official that he is wrong.
-official warns bench personnel about YELLING at him.
-official warns HEAD coach that a member of his bench personnel is getting out of line.
-warnings work without further in-game incidents.

There's not a damn thing the matter imo in the way that the official handled the incident. The actions of the varsity coach were wrong, and inexcusable.

[Corndog89]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Or maybe call it a lack of balls....

Just one guy's two cent's worth.

Just the opposite...it takes balls to address your own mistakes and solve problems. Are you telling me you would have handled the original situation (not the V coach's actions after the game) as the original poster did? Look what balls did for him.

And nice job of taking one part of a larger commentary out of context.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Just the opposite...it takes balls to address your own mistakes and solve problems. Are you telling me you would have handled the original situation (not the V coach's actions after the game) as the original poster did? Look what balls did for him.

And nice job of taking one part of a larger commentary out of context.

Yes. See my answer above.

It takes balls to take actions that will benefit other officials that have to go into that school for future games. Maybe next time the Varsity coach might hesitate before yelling at an official when he damnwell shouldn't be.

As for your larger commentary, for the record I disagree with it. The original poster didn't escalate anything. He stopped the unsporting actions of the Varsity coach.

As I said, just one guy's 2 cents worth, like it or not. Shrug.

[Corndog89]

JR...

Okay

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As for your larger commentary, for the record I disagree with it. The original poster didn't escalate anything. He stopped the unsporting actions of the Varsity coach.

We really do not know that. All we know is that the official gave a warning; we do not know the tone of voice, the body language or facial expressions that might have been used to get that point across. Look, dealing with coaches is an art. Even if he handled it wonderfully, it does not mean the next officials will have to deal with the same behavior. Coaches react for all kinds of reasons and it does not matter what the other official did that perpetuates that. This coach was just a jerk and if he could not handle an official putting him into his place, he might go up against another official that is not worried about what he thinks and will report him appropriately. I know I do not officiate for the next guy. I officiate for myself and the crew that is on the game. I cannot take responsibility for what that coach does with other people. A coach might be a jerk to me and a nice guy to everyone else.

Peace

[Mregor]

1. Write a letter to the pincipal and school board with only facts of what he did, not the actual play on the court (they won't know or care). His behavior is unacceptable.
2. Don't work there anymore.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Go back to the start of the confrontation...you started it when you dorked up with the IW. Not a major mistake and one easily corrected, but it was your mistake to start with (and we've all done similar "DOH's"). When the V coach started yelling that you had proceeded incorrectly (incorrectly, BTW) you had a choice to make and it sounds like you reacted defensively.

It doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds like he knew he was right, and he acted in accordance with the situation that the so-called V coach escalated.

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Technically you were correct, but, IMO, you escalated the situation by immediately telling the V coach "You're wrong" and then directing the frosh coach to shut up his "assistant" and keep him in line.

Ichi may have used the phrase "I told him he was wrong" in his post, but there's no indication that he said that in the sitch. And he didn't even say he directed the frosh coach to shut his assistant up and keep him in line. He directed the HEAD coach, who is supposed to be in charge after all, to control his bench. That's the neutral, official instruction straight from the book. How is that inflamatory?[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Again IMO, you put the frosh coach on a huge spot because it's rare the HS frosh coach who is an "equal" to the V head coach...the frosh coach invariably works for the V coach in some capacity and is unlikely to direct or stand up to the V coach. Now the V coach has been publically humiliated over a minor mistake in a freshman game and the proverbial molehill has grown into a mountain.

The V coach humiliated himself making a mountain out of a molehill. The ref is just trying to get the game back on track.

Originally Posted by Corndog89

What would I have done? Being a freshman game, and even though the V coach was technically an assistant, I would have brought him and the frosh coach together and explained my mistake and that we're going POI per the rules (I don't have my rules book with me so I can't cite the exact rule). By treating the V coach (who, face it, would be my real target for pacification in light of my error) as the de facto guy-in-charge, it would probably prevent any further blow-ups.

This sounds like a great way to cut the family jewels off the frosh coach. If he can't stand up to the V coach already, you're sure not helping here. It's like a coach asking your partner to through you under the bus. Not a good plan, imo.

Originally Posted by Corndog89

Call it game management, call it humility, call it real-politick, but I want the game to continue without unecessarily bringing on more and bigger problems. This should never have escalated into a pi$$ing contest between me and the V coach.

It wasn't a pissing contenst between ichi and the coach. IT was the coach being a complete and total jerk. ichi just dealt with the sitch. got the game going, had no more game problems. I call that game management. you can call it whatever you want.

Originally Posted by Corndog89

For me the toughest part of officiating is dealing with coaches, and when I let my emotions overcome detached calm and logic, that's when I start to have real problems.

Doesn't sound like his emotions overcame his calm or his logic. I don't get how you're interpreting this as ichi's problem. The V coach got idiotic, ichi got him under control. sounds good to me.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by rngrck

First of all, i'd like to know why the varsity coach was on the bench to begin with. Unless at pre game he was announced as assitant coach, I would have removed him.

There is absolutely no basis for you to do this. And in lots of schools in different areas the frosh or JV coach is actually just a varsity assistant coach, and many times I've seen the varsity coach sit on the bench as an assistant in those instances.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

There is absolutely no basis for you to do this. And in lots of schools in different areas the frosh or JV coach is actually just a varsity assistant coach, and many times I've seen the varsity coach sit on the bench as an assistant in those instances.

Exactly...I don't even know how you would know, what do you go to the HC before the game and ask what the role is of every non-uniformed person on their bench?