History Repeats Itself

[Rufus]

With a hat tip to Coltdogs, I had a JV boy's game this weekend where, in the first quarter, one of the coaches yells out during a stop in play "They're raping us out there!" I hit him with a technical upon which he comes onto the floor and says loudly "That's the first call you've gotten right tonight!" I hit him with a second technical and he's done for the night.

What is it with coaches and using that phrase? To me it is particularly violent and offensive (strangely, more than "They're killing us" or "They're mugging us"), especially when you consider that there were kids in the stands. Because it was a JV game it wasn't really crowded yet so I heard him quite clearly at mid-court (he was at the end of the coach's box closest to the endline). I've read the comments posted on Coltdogs' original post and honestly did not think I would be faced with that situation.

The varsity coach took over for the team (all they had was a student manager left on the bench, no assistants apparently) and he was OK with my reasoning. To his credit, the JV coach came into the official's room after the game and apologized.

Anyway, just wanted to vent a little bit. Thanks for all who contribute to this forum. It's very much appreciated.

[Scrapper1]

Good job by you.

Stoopid monkeys.

[Ignats75]

To his credit, the JV coach came into the official's room after the game and apologized.

I don't care his motives, that is wrong wrong wrong. Coaches should never have access to the referees after the game.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I don't care his motives, that is wrong wrong wrong. Coaches should never have access to the referees after the game.

You know, I thought about that at the time but the entire varsity crew was there with me, along with my partner from the JV game, and none of them thought twice about it. I thought it highly inappropriate too. This is a new high school, though, and game management is still a struggle for them (this was only the second game they'd hosted ever).

Still, I think I'll include that as a follow-on to the report I had to send in. Thanks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I don't care his motives, that is wrong wrong wrong. Coaches should never have access to the referees after the game.

I agree in theory. But if a coach is being contrite, I can let that go. Now if they want to complain or ask for a clarification without approval of the officials on the game, then I would completely agree. In other words I would not encourage this in anyway, but if they walked into the room and were throwing around complements or apologizing I can easily get over that.

Peace

[bigdog5142]

I whacked a coach last week (JV boys small school)...my partner (a former state tourney official, now getting older) asked me to go to the table to remind them that they keep track of team fouls to 10 and no further. As I was walking away from the table the coach screams..."What, are you ashamed of the game you guys are calling!?" WHACK! Just before the second half, the coach comes up and apologizes to us, citing that he only had two hours of sleep last night and was a bit testy to begin with. No problems after that. The apology can always help...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Rufus

What is it with coaches and using that phrase? To me it is particularly violent and offensive (strangely, more than "They're killing us" or "They're mugging us"),

Rape is a much more personal and dehumanizing assault that mugging or even (strangely) killing. Think of war, where soldiers who are encouraged to kill are always punished for raping (at least if they're caught, they are). Thus the accusation of rape is a more serious charge and is far less acceptable. Whacking a coach for this accusation is automatic in my book.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Rape is a much more personal and dehumanizing assault that mugging or even (strangely) killing. Think of war, where soldiers who are encouraged to kill are always punished for raping (at least if they're caught, they are). Thus the accusation of rape is a more serious charge and is far less acceptable. Whacking a coach for this accusation is automatic in my book.

Whoa. Hold on here a second. Just stop.

Soldiers are NOT encouraged to kill. They are trained to kill *the enemy* if necesary. In fact there's a thing called rules of engagement that defines for soldiers under what circumstance they can engage (read try to kill) the enemy. Further, there is only 1 US branch where every member is given some rudimentary training in "killing", in the others most are there in a support role. Above that, you might have heard of the Geneva Conventions which states in no uncertain terms who a soldier of any nation may and may not intentionally kill in combat. You might even have heard that some soldiers have recently been brought to trial and been found guilty of illegally killing in combat zones. All that said in today's climate the only people who are "encouraged to kill" by their leaders and educators in fact are not soldiers but the armed non-uniformed enemy they face.

Is rape a terrible crime? Yes.

Does this entitle you to broadly insult an entire population of honorable people who go to great lengths to serve their country?

No it does not.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Whoa. Hold on here a second. Just stop.

Soldiers are NOT encouraged to kill. They are trained to kill *the enemy* if necesary. In fact there's a thing called rules of engagement that defines for soldiers under what circumstance they can engage (read try to kill) the enemy. Further, there is only 1 US branch where every member is given some rudimentary training in "killing", in the others most are there in a support role. Above that, you might have heard of the Geneva Conventions which states in no uncertain terms who a soldier of any nation may and may not intentionally kill in combat. You might even have heard that some soldiers have recently been brought to trial and been found guilty of illegally killing in combat zones. All that said in today's climate the only people who are "encouraged to kill" by their leaders and educators in fact are not soldiers but the armed non-uniformed enemy they face.

Is rape a terrible crime? Yes.

Does this entitle you to broadly insult an entire population of honorable people who go to great lengths to serve their country?

No it does not.

I stand corrected, then. Let me (again today) rephrase. "In war, soldiers are allowed to kill in certain situations, but are never allowed to rape under any circumstances. " Does that better represent the sitch?

Let me add that although I am completely anti-war under all circumstances, I do not believe that people who disagree with my position are dis-honorable. I know that 99% of our soldiers are honorable people who are doing what they think is best and right for our country, and I respect that. I respect and appreciate the standards that our soldiers and most of their leaders hold and seek to follow. I in no way said what I did out of scorn or insult of the military.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Let me add that although I am completely anti-war under all circumstances

Juulie - as you know, this is one of the serious points on which we disagree. However, you also know I certainly respect you and your views. As someone who has a relative currently on active duty in a war zone, I did not take offense to your statement, but I can see where someone else might have. This just goes to show us how volatile and personal an issue this is. Maybe we should just stay away from it on a board like this.

That having been said, "who loves ya' baby"?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Thus the accusation of rape is a more serious charge and is far less acceptable. Whacking a coach for this accusation is automatic in my book.

NCAA football actually uses the term rape. Just check out the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYIrsCADoM8

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by LDUB

NCAA football actually uses the term rape. Just check out the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYIrsCADoM8

That wasn't the NCAA, that was an announcer. Whole different species.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

That wasn't the NCAA, that was an announcer. Whole different species.

No, I'm pretty sure face rape is listed in the definitions in rule 2. It is somewhere right in there between clipping, down, fair catch, and foul. I've never seen it on the signal chart though. The proper signal must be personal foul, face mask, then disqualification (as a face rape by definition is flagrant).

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by LDUB

No, I'm pretty sure face rape is listed in the definitions in rule 2. It is somewhere right in there between clipping, down, fair catch, and foul. I've never seen it on the signal chart though. The proper signal must be personal foul, face mask, then disqualification (as a face rape by definition is flagrant).

LOL so to point out a rule, you're going to reference a youtube video of an announcer complaining? whatever...

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

No, I'm pretty sure face rape is listed in the definitions in rule 2. It is somewhere right in there between clipping, down, fair catch, and foul. I've never seen it on the signal chart though. The proper signal must be personal foul, face mask, then disqualification (as a face rape by definition is flagrant).

It does not.