White Hat History anyone?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

OK, I was having a discussion with a co-worker of mine today in regards to Ron Jaworski replacing Joe THeismann on the Monday night football broadcast crew. As we got to talking about how horrible Joe is in the booth, I mentioned the play where his leg got broken. My co-worker had never seen it, so we went and looked it up on YouTube.

As the play ends, the first official on the field to enter the picture was wearing a white hat, but appeared to come from the defensive side of the field, so I thought it was odd that he would be wearing a white hat. So much so, that I watched it again to see if there was any way that the Referee could have come in from that angle. This time, I watched the clip all the way to the end, and at the end of the clip, you could see most of the officials huddled to talk about something, and they were ALL wearing white hats.

So, I'm curious to know when football crews went from ALL wearing white hats to just the Referee wearing them.

[FredFan7]

Through 1978 all NFL officials wore white hats. Then, from 1979 to 1987 the referee wore a black hat and the rest of the officials wore white hats. This was done so the R could be more visible to the folks on TV.

During this entire time at the college level the referee wore a white hat and the rest of the crew wore black hats.

Then in 1988 the NFL switched and had the referee start wearing a white hat and the rest of the crew wore black hats. My guess is the NFL and NCAA wanted to be more uniform on hat color.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Very interesting. And the hit occurred in 1985, so that would make sense.

[Forksref]

The old films are interesting. Prior to 1974 (I think), the goal post was located over the goal line. It made for interesting pick plays by the receivers. Also, the hash marks were closer to the sidelines, making sweeps less effective since there was less room on the short side. I'm pretty sure that kickoffs were from the 40 but I can't say when. If you look at old films, the officials who signaled TD's were more dramatic, litterally jumping off the ground as they raised their arms. Knickers were baggier, too, and there were no stripes on the socks which were stirrups. I am reflecting on NCAA and some NFL situations, too. AFL officials had red and white stripes. AFL teams could go for 2 on PAT's while the NFL could only go for 1.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of these details. I am going on a very old memory! Any other items you guys remember?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Forksref

The old films are interesting. Prior to 1974 (I think), the goal post was located over the goal line. It made for interesting pick plays by the receivers. Also, the hash marks were closer to the sidelines, making sweeps less effective since there was less room on the short side. I'm pretty sure that kickoffs were from the 40 but I can't say when. If you look at old films, the officials who signaled TD's were more dramatic, litterally jumping off the ground as they raised their arms. Knickers were baggier, too, and there were no stripes on the socks which were stirrups. I am reflecting on NCAA and some NFL situations, too. AFL officials had red and white stripes. AFL teams could go for 2 on PAT's while the NFL could only go for 1.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of these details. I am going on a very old memory! Any other items you guys remember?

I also think in the 50's and early 60s the umpire(NCAA) wore a red arm band because substitutes had to report to him on entering the game.

Also any member of crew signalling a touchdown, other than the referee, used an extended arm parallel to the ground. The Referee, after surveying the field for any flags, would then extend his arms upward in the traditional TD signal.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Forksref

If you look at old films, the officials who signaled TD's were more dramatic, litterally jumping off the ground as they raised their arms.

If you look at really old films, you see the 1-hand (or fist) signal for touchdown. (Still used for a try in rugby. Ref points down with finger on the other hand to where the ball was touched down.) It's really just a version of the dead ball signal, but the ball was dead over the goal line. In some cases they'd "sell" the call, as when the runner got the ball over but was pushed back -- then they'd stand on the goal line, swinging the arm overhead from the field of play to the end zone side, indicating over-and-back.

Last time I saw the 1-hand "try given" signal was in the early 1970s in a Hula Bowl game -- I guess things took a while to reach Hawaii! But even in the late 1960s I saw it used in one Ivy League game.

Remember NCAA's previous personal foul signal? It was the one now used for touchback. Why in the world they used that rather than the "hack" sign used by Fed, NFL, and even basketball, I don't know.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by FredFan7

Through 1978 all NFL officials wore white hats. Then, from 1979 to 1987 the referee wore a black hat and the rest of the officials wore white hats. This was done so the R could be more visible to the folks on TV.

During this entire time at the college level the referee wore a white hat and the rest of the crew wore black hats.

Then in 1988 the NFL switched and had the referee start wearing a white hat and the rest of the crew wore black hats. My guess is the NFL and NCAA wanted to be more uniform on hat color.

ISTR in the 1960s or later in high school games (not all of which were Fed) the officials having the opposite color caps from NCAA, but they switched before NFL did.

Now I'm trying to remember the order of switching colors of penalty flags, between Fed, NCAA, and NFL, red vs. yellow. I remember a time NCAA had yellow and the other 2 red. NCAA switched first from corner flags to pylons, but now I don't remember whether Fed or NFL switched last.

CFL was last to completely get rid of penalty horns, after CAFA, and long after USA officials.

Robert

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

ISTR in the 1960s or later in high school games (not all of which were Fed) the officials having the opposite color caps from NCAA, but they switched before NFL did.

Now I'm trying to remember the order of switching colors of penalty flags, between Fed, NCAA, and NFL, red vs. yellow. I remember a time NCAA had yellow and the other 2 red. NCAA switched first from corner flags to pylons, but now I don't remember whether Fed or NFL switched last.

CFL was last to completely get rid of penalty horns, after CAFA, and long after USA officials.

Robert

Thanks for the memories! I remember the fist for the TD but I wasn't aware that it was a signal to the WH. As for red flags, I still contend that they would be easier to see on a dry grass field in a late fall afternoon game.

They'd show up better than a blue bean bag on a deep grass field at night! (editorial comment)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, I was having a discussion with a co-worker of mine today in regards to Ron Jaworski replacing Joe THeismann on the Monday night football broadcast crew. As we got to talking about how horrible Joe is in the booth, I mentioned the play where his leg got broken. My co-worker had never seen it, so we went and looked it up on YouTube.

As the play ends, the first official on the field to enter the picture was wearing a white hat, but appeared to come from the defensive side of the field, so I thought it was odd that he would be wearing a white hat. So much so, that I watched it again to see if there was any way that the Referee could have come in from that angle. This time, I watched the clip all the way to the end, and at the end of the clip, you could see most of the officials huddled to talk about something, and they were ALL wearing white hats.

So, I'm curious to know when football crews went from ALL wearing white hats to just the Referee wearing them.

W&S:

Since you mentioned Ron Jaworski, here is another bit of football trivia. As most people know (at least I hope they know) that Jaws played quarterback for Youngstown State University (my alma mater (nuturing mother)), but how many people know the YSU coach for whom Jaws played and for what is he famous?

answer: Dwight "Dike" Beede, who invented the penalty flag (the first set of flags were made by Coach Beede's wife.

MTD, Sr.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

W&S:

Since you mentioned Ron Jaworski, here is another bit of football trivia. As most people know (at least I hope they know) that Jaws played quarterback for Youngstown State University (my alma mater (nuturing mother)), but how many people know the YSU coach for whom Jaws played and for what is he famous?

answer: Dwight "Dike" Beede,

Is he still around? Maybe he can answer my sidesaddle T inquiry if Jaworski doesn't.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Is he still around? Maybe he can answer my sidesaddle T inquiry if Jaworski doesn't.

You are good. You must have seen some YSU games before Jaws played there. I remember watching YSU games in the 60's where the quarterback stood directly behind the center but took more of a handoff rather that a snap back from the center.

Coach Beede retired from coaching and teaching biology at YSU at the end of fall quarter in December 1972 and drowned in the Little Beaver Creek that ran through his property less than two weeks after he retired. He liked to hike along the creek and it appeared that he slipped and fell and became incapaciated in the creek and drowned.

MTD, Sr.

[HossHumard]

"CFL was last to completely get rid of penalty horns, after CAFA, and long after USA officials."

Geez, I remember those stupid horns as a player....they sounded more like kazoos more than anything....I found them to be a big pain in the butt.

I can't imagine how a mid play signal like that could help the officiating process, but maybe some of you, um, ah..."vets" could shed some light on that!

As well, the CFL remains out of step as far as officials hat colour patterns are concerned as the Head Ref wears black, the rest of the crew white. Cdn amateur is in line with NFL, NCAA and I assume US amateur.

Tonight is the beginning of the spring "Midget" division (community based league for grade 9, 10 and 11 kids) play here in Alberta...with temps just over zero F and a ton of snow still on the ground, it should prove to be interesting to say the least!

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

...Remember NCAA's previous personal foul signal? It was the one now used for touchback. Why in the world they used that rather than the "hack" sign used by Fed, NFL, and even basketball, I don't know.

Robert

REPLY: Actually, they used the same PF signal in Fed back in the mid 60s before they went to the 'hack.'

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You are good. You must have seen some YSU games before Jaws played there.

No, I just exploit Internet connections. On Delphi's single wing forum (inhabited almost exclusively by coaches, I'm the one who makes it "almost") I expressed interest in the sidesaddle T, and someone a few months ago mentioned that the Polish Rifle had just mentioned on some TV show his having played in such an offense.

I remember watching YSU games in the 60's where the quarterback stood directly behind the center but took more of a handoff rather than a snap back from the center.

AFAIK the ball's delivered between the snapper's legs, but the QB is facing a sideline. I wanted to see if I could find anyone to coach that exchange to encourage someone to adopt the type of offense I have in mind here.

If the ball is handed around the snapper's leg, that could be the Power Wing, for which someone gave a Power Point presentation which is available online somewhere.

In those games you saw, did they ever snap thru to a deep back? Did you have a good enough view to see if the ball was coming to the QB's hands between the snapper's legs? And was the QB standing fairly erect rather than crouching behind the line? Because it was common going back to at least 1910 to have a QB crouching low at an angle to the center when the ball was snapped, and some double wing teams do that even today, but the sidesaddle T had a stand-up QB.

Coach Beede retired from coaching and teaching biology at YSU at the end of fall quarter in December 1972 and drowned in the Little Beaver Creek that ran through his property less than two weeks after he retired. He liked to hike along the creek and it appeared that he slipped and fell and became incapacitated in the creek and drowned.

Well I guess that answers that question. Bizarre & grisly story.

Meanwhile I found an article online by Phil Allen (in scanned PDF) from Nov. of 1992 which answered the questions asked in this thread about flags, and apparently is a short version of his 18 page booklet, The Penalty Flag in American Football, which he was offering at that time for $4. Seems there was some use of flags for penalties earlier, but unlike Mr. Beede's they didn't establish lasting precedent.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HossHumard

"CFL was last to completely get rid of penalty horns, after CAFA, and long after USA officials."

Geez, I remember those stupid horns as a player....they sounded more like kazoos more than anything....I found them to be a big pain in the butt.

I can't imagine how a mid play signal like that could help the officiating process, but maybe some of you, um, ah..."vets" could shed some light on that!

There are theoretic reasons for the penalty horn, which was used from an early time in North American football on both sides of the border, but not back to when the ref was the only official. Maybe it came in with the 20th Century, I'm not sure.

When the defense (especially) commits a foul, it benefits the non-offending team to know the remainder of the play is "free", so they don't have to play conservatively. They might not see a flag or other visual, but they can all hear a horn (unless they're deaf). It would've been of greater benefit in such a case to have 2 different tones of horn, one for fouls by each team, but AFAIK it never got that sophisticated.

The other theoretic reason would be a situation in which the enforcement spot is Point Ball Held (which AFAIK has been used only in Canadian football) and the spot of the foul is elsewhere. One official seeing the infraction can sound the horn while another official hearing it marks PBH. However, I don't know if there's ever been such a situation (it doesn't currently come up in Canadian football), and of course there'll always be a bit of delay between seeing the infraction and blowing the horn.

The trouble has always been that players have tended to react to an official's audible signal of any kind by stopping play.

BTW, until pretty recently in Canadian football (I forgot who had it last, CFL or Football Canada -- or maybe it's still there), it was still theoretically possible for officials to whistle a play dead following an infraction if further play by the team in possession would be futile (because the penalty would be enforced from a spot already determined), but officials just stopped using that judgement. (The way the rule was written was poor in that it allowed play to be killed if further play would clearly not benefit the non-offending side, but if you think about play situations you see what a hosing that could be! So instead I'm giving the obvious spirit of the rule.) It was a version of rugby's "advantage law", and was abolished in USAn football much, much earlier. It is kind of rotten, though, that injuries, offsetting fouls, and just plain blunders can be made by players during an interval when play is futile because it will be canceled by penalty.

Robert