Penalty for unauthorized leaving floor

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I disagree - I'm not . I read many sanctamonious messages about how sacred "certain" rules are and if someone does not call them a certain way - they are misinformed, 2nd rate officials. I was not aware that the Fed, NCAA or any other body says that you should only call the rules that you want to call, or that you are to interpret rules your own way. In fact, I have read many posts that state; "don't read so much into this rule" etc

Don't call the rules if you don't want to but please don't tell me I am mistaken. I am not trying to inflame anyone - but there seems to be too much finger pointing and name calling. A wise man once said, "Opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one and they all stink!"

I haven't really seen any finger-pointing and name-calling in this thread. Well, except for maybe you trying to tell people that they lack integrity if they don't call the game the way that you think it should be called. I do see other officials voicing opinions that are diametrically opposite.

For the record, I take it that you are you following the same philosophy as Nevada. You advocate calling 3-seconds strictly as defined in the rules, with no warning, etc. And if a FT shooter takes 11 seconds, that's an immediate violation. Correct?

The bottom line is that each official has to decide their own philosophy as to what to call or not call. Obviously, nothing that is being posted here will change your philosophy either. That's fine too.

[chartrusepengui]

Here we go

If I am going to give a warning it's going to before 3 seconds, and yes I will blow the whistle if a FT shooter takes 11 seconds because by the time he catches the ball and I have visually started my count it's more than likely been longer than 11 seconds anyway. BTW - have you EVER come close to calling that one? I don't think that I've ever gotten close to 10.

I did not tell anyone how to call their game - or at least didn't intend to but I can't be responsible for how everyone interprets what they read. I did question however, not making calls in situations that they don't deem to be very important. If I missed something in the book could you please give me the specific rule that allows for this. In some threads some of the same people are very firm about making a call to the letter of the rule - but in other threads feel it's not as important. My real question is: not important to who? What if a team loses a game because a FT was counted when toe is on line whether a whole toe or an eighth of an inch. That would be important to the losing team IMO I'm sorry if you have somehow been offended by my view or questions. I guess that I just feel that if you don't call something that you see because at the time you don't feel it significant - that same call could have a huge impact in the outcome of the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I did question however, not making calls in situations that they don't deem to be very important. If I missed something in the book could you please give me the specific rule that allows for this.

The rule book does specifically talk about knowing the "intent and purpose of the rule so it may be intelligently applied" (or something like that). And, it talks about advantage / disadvantage on all rules. That's all we're discussing here.

It's very difficult to write specific words that correclty and clearly convey to all people how they should be applied in all situations.

Another attempt at explaining what Scrapper and I (and others) mean: Look at what you need to look at. IOW, if a player is alone in the backcourt, you don't need to watch him / her very closely. So, if there's a "minor" palming, or travel, you probably won't (shouldn't) see it. If there's a press, you need to watch, and you will (should) see it.

[chartrusepengui]

Another attempt at explaining what Scrapper and I (and others) mean: Look at what you need to look at. IOW, if a player is alone in the backcourt, you don't need to watch him / her very closely. So, if there's a "minor" palming, or travel, you probably won't (shouldn't) see it. If there's a press, you need to watch, and you will (should) see it.

This I will agree with - however - I was pointing out that if you see it in a close game where a violation could affect the outcome of the game it should be called. In a blowout - with player alone in backcourt I would not be watching as closely. In a tie or one point game I am going to be watching same situation much closer.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Here we go

If I am going to give a warning it's going to before 3 seconds, and yes I will blow the whistle if a FT shooter takes 11 seconds because by the time he catches the ball and I have visually started my count it's more than likely been longer than 11 seconds anyway.

I did question however, not making calls in situations that they don't deem to be very important. If I missed something in the book could you please give me the specific rule that allows for this.

Yup, here we go again.

Now you've confused the heck outa me. You previously made a a comment about the NFHS and NCAA not saying that we should interpret rules our own way. You also above question officials for not making calls in situations that they don't deem important. But........you're still prepared to warn someone for 3-seconds instead of just calling it according to the rulebook? If I missed something in the book, could you please give me the specific rule that allows for this?

Afaik, there's no provision in either the NCAA or NFHS rules for "warnings" instead of actually calling 3-second violations. If you're warning somebody, aren't you....gasp....interpreting the rules your own way?

[chartrusepengui]

try reading my post again - I said if I gave a warning it would be before three seconds

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

try reading my post again - I said if I gave a warning it would be before three seconds

Yup. And I asked you to cite a rule saying that you can WARN a player not to commit a violation. I'm still waiting.

You're the one that wants to follow the rules. Just tell me what rule you're following when you warn a player instead of just waiting for the 3 seconds to lapse.

[swkansasref33]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup. And I asked you to cite a rule saying that you can WARN a player not to commit a violation. I'm still waiting.

You're the one that wants to follow the rules. Just tell me what rule you're following when you warn a player instead of just waiting for the 3 seconds to lapse.

You Arent following a rule. you are doing preventative officiating!

[chartrusepengui]

when life gets ya down and you're wearing a frown -

forget the meds - just come to the officials forum and

it will take just a short while to get you to smile!

This forum could be prescribed by physicians, psychologists etc.

[chartrusepengui]

and no I'm not interpreting the rules my own way - show me the rule that says I can't warn someone in the lane before 3 seconds by saying "keep moving" or "in and out".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

and no I'm not interpreting the rules my own way - show me the rule that says I can't warn someone in the lane before 3 seconds by saying "keep moving" or "in and out".

Show me the rule that says you can.

Do you still call 3 seconds as soon as that count is up, even though a player may have heard your warning and is already in the process of leaving the lane?