bad to worse

[NCAAREF]

Although the defense leagaly can't call a TO, once you grant it you have to award it. Your mistake for acknowledging the TO request, hopefully the other coach understands. In this instance since the TO has to be awarded the 5th player at the table becomes a moot pint as he/she will enter once the TO ends.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by NCAAREF

Although the defense leagaly can't call a TO, once you grant it you have to award it. Your mistake for acknowledging the TO request, hopefully the other coach understands. In this instance since the TO has to be awarded the 5th player at the table becomes a moot pint as he/she will enter once the TO ends.

Right. And I'll go further - unless we were in the last 59.9 seconds of the second half this sub COULD enter the game under men's & woman's ncaa rules. But even at that point either team can take a TO and then the sub can come in.

(Good play btw, made me open my book )

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by NCAAREF

Although the defense leagaly can't call a TO, once you grant it you have to award it.

I once had a game in which a time-out was granted and the coach said, "I didn't call for a time-out", and the official declared an inadvertent whistle. I've asked other officials and told this was ok in college, but (obviously) not in high school. Does anybody have a definitive citation for this situation?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I once had a game in which a time-out was granted and the coach said, "I didn't call for a time-out", and the official declared an inadvertent whistle. I've asked other officials and told this was ok in college, but (obviously) not in high school. Does anybody have a definitive citation for this situation?

That is my understanding also but I cannot find it in the book either. I'm sure someone will come up with it.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

That is my understanding also but I cannot find it in the book either. I'm sure someone will come up with it.

We have had several threads on granting T.O.s, especially regarding if they were "actually" requested or not. Below is the Sit from 06-07. By rule when a T.O. is granted it can not be revoked; however, the discussion lies with whether or not it was actually requested for the Ref to grant it.... thus IW has been used in thoses instances... right? wrong?

5.8.3 Situation E:	The official erroneously grants Team B a time-out in a situation when Team B cannot have one. What happens now?
Ruling:	Team B is entitled to use the time-out since it was granted. The time-out once granted cannot be revoked and is charged to Team B. All privileges and rights permitted during a charged time-out are available to both teams.
	[See corresponding Rule Article for Situation 5.8.3]

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Splute

We have had several threads on granting T.O.s, especially regarding if they were "actually" requested or not. Below is the Sit from 06-07. By rule when a T.O. is granted it can not be revoked; however, the discussion lies with whether or not it was actually requested for the Ref to grant it.... thus IW has been used in thoses instances... right? wrong?

Yep, good find, but this is the HS rule. Scrappy and I are talking about the ncaa rule.

[Splute]

I thought that was the case. Thought I would post HS in case others were curious too. Sorry.

[reddevil19]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I once had a game in which a time-out was granted and the coach said, "I didn't call for a time-out", and the official declared an inadvertent whistle. I've asked other officials and told this was ok in college, but (obviously) not in high school. Does anybody have a definitive citation for this situation?

Which rule for HS covers that? (EDIT: Never mind, I see the rule cited) Is the intent of the rule to make sure that if a player calls timeout it must be taken, regardless of whether the coach wanted it? I hope so. What about a situation like this:

About 5-6 years ago my Frosh team had the ball in the front-court (2nd half, so right in front of me). Action is ocurring, I'm standing in my box, closer to table than baseline, mouth shut and arms folded when the lead official blows his whistle and says "Timeout-red." While waiting in stunned silence to find out which of my players unnecessarily called a timeout, imagine my surprise to have the table be told that I called the timeout. When I explained that I had done no such thing, I was told that "someone around my bench" called for it. I pointed out that since I had no assistant coach and only 3 players on the bench and that none of them said it, I didn't want a timeout and would like to just restart the game. The official told me that since "I heard the timeout call from around your bench, you have to take it."

I decided there was no point in arguing. Aside from the obvious things that are wrong with how that was handled, I can't imagine that the rule is intended to force a timeout on a team in a situation like that.

Thanks for the knowledge!

[Coltdoggs]

Had a sitch once like this not too long ago.....

I was T and the ball was being advanced toward half court against mild pressure (by this I mean the guard was about 7-8 feet away moving backwards to play normal D in the FC)....I happened to take my eyes off the dribbler to check/verify the clock (it was under :20 left and I wanted to get a good mental note of where we were at)...As I did this, I hear TIMEOUT-TIMEOUT...I blew the whistle and it was the guard not the ball handler that said it....I called an inadvertandt whistle and we put the ball back in play with a throw in from HC line...

I admit, I should have looked to verify....but the placement of the players really made me think it came from the ball handler...I was probably equidistant from both the guard and the dribbler when I heard it...it really sounded like it came from my right (where the ball handler was at) and not toward my left where the guard was at...

Is there a penalty here for what the defense did?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

Had a sitch once like this not too long ago.....

I was T and the ball was being advanced toward half court against mild pressure (by this I mean the guard was about 7-8 feet away moving backwards to play normal D in the FC)....I happened to take my eyes off the dribbler to check/verify the clock (it was under :20 left and I wanted to get a good mental note of where we were at)...As I did this, I hear TIMEOUT-TIMEOUT...I blew the whistle and it was the guard not the ball handler that said it....I called an inadvertandt whistle and we put the ball back in play with a throw in from HC line...

I admit, I should have looked to verify....but the placement of the players really made me think it came from the ball handler...I was probably equidistant from both the guard and the dribbler when I heard it...it really sounded like it came from my right (where the ball handler was at) and not toward my left where the guard was at...

Is there a penalty here for what the defense did?

In this case since you blew the whistle to grant the TO, I believe the Defense should be granted & charged with the TO. No it should not have been granted to start with, but since the play was stopped for the TO, it must be granted. The only penalty would be if B team didnt have any TOs remaining.

[rockyroad]

IN HS, if you blow the whistle, they get the timeout and you tell the other coach "Oops. My bad."

In NCAA, you blow the whistle, say "Oops, my bad." and they do not get the timeout. I know this because I got reamed by a supervisor several years ago for doing it wrong.Don't have my books with me (they're out in the car and it's raining again) so I can't tell you the rule reference, but believe me, I will always remember that one!

[inigo montoya]

I had the opposite problem last night. Coach in my ear yelling "time out" near the end of the game. I had tuned him out, since he'd been yelling out plays to his players all game. My partner called the TO from across the floor. Coach was not very happy: "didn't you hear me calling for timeout?"

"Uh... [silence] ... sorry coach."

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

IN HS, if you blow the whistle, they get the timeout and you tell the other coach "Oops. My bad."

In NCAA, you blow the whistle, say "Oops, my bad." and they do not get the timeout. I know this because I got reamed by a supervisor several years ago for doing it wrong.Don't have my books with me (they're out in the car and it's raining again) so I can't tell you the rule reference, but believe me, I will always remember that one!

I couldn't find this in the 2006 or 2008 NCAA rule book, but i do believe that in NCAA, you do not grant the timeout in this situation.

Unfortunately, I kicked this in the oppposite direction when I was asked to officiate a 6th grade boys game. We had no refs, so a parent and myself were asked to officiate. I'd given A1 the ball for a throw-in, and my partner is whistling a time out for B. I stopped play and told my partner he couldn't grant a timeout, and restarted play.

Although, at the next dead ball, I did ask Coach B if he still wanted a timeout. He didn't.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by reddevil19

Which rule for HS covers that? (EDIT: Never mind, I see the rule cited) Is the intent of the rule to make sure that if a player calls timeout it must be taken, regardless of whether the coach wanted it? I hope so. What about a situation like this:

About 5-6 years ago my Frosh team had the ball in the front-court (2nd half, so right in front of me). Action is ocurring, I'm standing in my box, closer to table than baseline, mouth shut and arms folded when the lead official blows his whistle and says "Timeout-red." While waiting in stunned silence to find out which of my players unnecessarily called a timeout, imagine my surprise to have the table be told that I called the timeout. When I explained that I had done no such thing, I was told that "someone around my bench" called for it. I pointed out that since I had no assistant coach and only 3 players on the bench and that none of them said it, I didn't want a timeout and would like to just restart the game. The official told me that since "I heard the timeout call from around your bench, you have to take it."

I decided there was no point in arguing. Aside from the obvious things that are wrong with how that was handled, I can't imagine that the rule is intended to force a timeout on a team in a situation like that.

Thanks for the knowledge!

I am hardly an expert on rules, but I believe the intent relates to the fact that if an Official GRANTS a TO, then it must be enforced. Rather than if one is requested. Where it becomes gray is in situations as you mentioned. The official believes someone called a TO, he granted it, therefore by rule it should be enforced. However, I believe that if the situation, after review, indicates that no TO was actually requested, then there is nothing to GRANT and therefore should be treated as an IW. But again that is judgement and common sense.....