ouch...talk about losing your cool...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS In NV we have a bench-clearing rule that states if three or more individuals leave the bench, then the game is over and that team forfeits. If both teams do so, then the contest is ruled a double-forfeit.

A forfeit often comes with the losing team doing so with a score of 20-0 or perhaps 2-0. The point here is that the team forfeiting is assigned 0 points. The winning team then, must be assigned something greater than 0 points. That's where the typical 20 or 2 points comes in.

In a double forfeit, is each team assigned 0 points? If so, then you have a tie game, and therefore each team could score 1 point in the standings.

Or, could each team be assigned a loss? If that is true, how could a team lose when they don't score less points than their opponent?

Just wondering.

[SMEngmann]

There are clearly a number of places here where the officials could have erred based on the facts we do know. We know that there was a pushing foul by B1 on A1, which precipitated a fight in which 6 bench personnel from team A left the bench. While it's not clear who participated and who didn't, we know that two players at a minimum on the floor faught and should've been ejected with double flagrant Ts. We don't know if anyone else on the floor participated in the fight on either side. Based on the penalty enforcement, if all 6 bench personnel participated in the fight, the HC should have been ejected as well, and it's clear he was not from the article. Also, team A would've been entitled to FTs for the original foul, which it's not clear whether they were attempted. So it's clear that the officials probably erred in some way, but not in any way close to the whacked out interpretation provided by the AD.

I agree with Mark, you don't leave the bench unless you're gonna participate in the fight. Without video, it is nearly impossible for the officials to determine precisely who actively participated and who was "pulling people off" particularly when there's no way of defining participant. If bench personnel is in the melee, chances are I will rule that he was a participant without the benefit of video.

The comments of the AD were a joke in my opinion, and I'm not talking about his rules interpretation. He expresses no remorse for the actions of his team and his coach nor has he taken any action. I coach HS baseball, and if I left the bench to participate in a fight, or even if my players did, I would be held responsible and probably lose my job the next day. No accountability, and for him to blame the officiating for mistakes is unbelievable. Take responsibility and take action at the HS level, don't blame the refs because your entire team was out of control and the coaches that you hired lacked control. Judging by the final score, it was not a very well played game either...

[Larks]

Thinking about this - correct me if I am wrong but this is situation where in NCAA, you can go to the monitor to clean everything up - who gets Ts etc.

With pretty much almost every school taping games these days, I wonder if NFHS should consider allowing officials to use any means available to them in order to clean a mess like this up. If that means getting the camera down from row 50 to see who all left the bench / threw punches, why not?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

We know that there was a pushing foul by B1 on A1, which precipitated a fight in which 6 bench personnel from team A left the bench.

Nope, we don't know that. The rule doesn't say that there has to be a fight. It also provides for when a fight MAY break out. There could have just been a flare-up of emotions.

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

While it's not clear who participated and who didn't, we know that two players at a minimum on the floor faught and should've been ejected with double flagrant Ts.

Wrong twice. There may have simply been an altercation on the floor that wasn't a fight and didn't warrant any penalties, yet stirred the tempers and emotions of those on the bench and they overreacted.

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

Based on the penalty enforcement, if all 6 bench personnel participated in the fight, the HC should have been ejected as well, and it's clear he was not from the article.

A good point.

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

Also, team A would've been entitled to FTs for the original foul, which it's not clear whether they were attempted.

Not true, perhaps they were not in the bonus yet.

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I agree with Mark, you don't leave the bench unless you're gonna participate in the fight.

That opinion expressed by both of you has been proven false. Evidence to the contrary occurred in the Phoenix Suns/San Antonio Spurs playoff series.

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

The comments of the AD were a joke in my opinion, and I'm not talking about his rules interpretation. He expresses no remorse for the actions of his team and his coach nor has he taken any action. I coach HS baseball, and if I left the bench to participate in a fight, or even if my players did, I would be held responsible and probably lose my job the next day. No accountability, and for him to blame the officiating for mistakes is unbelievable. Take responsibility and take action at the HS level, don't blame the refs because your entire team was out of control and the coaches that you hired lacked control.

So you just skipped over these words? :
---------------
DeRenzo said. “We are not appealing the game. It’s not a league game, we did some things wrong and our team needs to learn and grow from this experience.”

DeRenzo was more concerned with the reactions of the adults in the melee, specifically an assistant coach that left the bench.

“The officials made a mistake and the kids will learn a valuable lesson, but the adults needed to do a better job of being role models for the kids,” said DeRenzo, who didn’t rule out a possible suspension of an assistant coach.
-------------------------------

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

Judging by the final score, it was not a very well played game either...

What a stupid statement. A low score is NOT indicative of a poorly played game. There could have been excellent defense. Long offensive possessions while working for a quality shot attempt. The kid hit 11 of 12 FTs at the end so obviously there was skill on the floor. Could you make 11 of 12?