is it a 3 or a 2

[zebraman]

That's a 3-pointer.

Z

[Lotto]

No question---3.

[Dan_ref]

3

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Danvrapp
[/B]

Jurassic - Based on your reasoning above (which I agree with 100%!), sounds like A1 is behind the three point arc!

If he's still in the BC when he picks up the foot in the FC (which he is), then he should still be behind the three point arc when he picks up the foot inside the arc - same principle applies. Assuming that A1 doesn't shoot at roughly the same time the foot inside the arc comes off the floor, looks like a 3 to me.

BTW, what makes you say that "A1 started a shot, by rule, with one foot over the 3-point line?" I didn't know you had to have two feet on the floor to start a shot??? [/B][/QUOTE]You don't have to have 2 feet on the floor to start a shot.In this case,though,A1 started his shot as soon as he lifted his pivot foot.R4-43-3a states that if you lift your pivot foot,legally all you can do is shoot or pass.The player in the case we are talking about definitely shot.Therefore,he had to start that try by lifting his pivot foot.If you now go to R4-40-1,that states the act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try.Therefore,if you put them together,the shot started immediately when A1 lifted his pivot foot from it's location inside the line.That's why I'm saying that I think it's a 2.The lag time that BBref is talking about is what is making me say"I think" instead of "I know",though.I can see where he is coming from.Does the player immediately gain location behind the arc when he raise the pivot foot that was in front of the arc?Could be,but the shot had started,too,with the raising of the foot.
The difference between this sitch and your BC/FC scenario is that at the center line,a player is considered in the BC if he is straddling it.If he is straddling the arc instead,his location is deemed to be inside the arc,not behind it.As I said,I think there are 2 different concepts involved.

[Slider]

The Cases deal with a player lifting both feet simultaneously.

In the situation here, one foot stays planted behind the arc; I have a 3 pt. shot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Slider
The Cases deal with a player lifting both feet simultaneously.

In the situation here, one foot stays planted behind the arc; I have a 3 pt. shot.

Say what???What cases are you referring to and what does that have to do with a player lifting a pivot foot while the other foot remains on the floor?There's no problem if both feet are lifted simultaneously.It's a 2 because one foot was inside the arc.

[Bart Tyson]

Jurassic, I have to admit you do have a good point. What about this; Lane violation, one foot in, one foot out. pick up the foot in the lane and the player is considered out of the lane. Do you think we can rule the 3 pointer the same as in the lane violation case?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Jurassic, I have to admit you do have a good point. What about this; Lane violation, one foot in, one foot out. pick up the foot in the lane and the player is considered out of the lane. Do you think we can rule the 3 pointer the same as in the lane violation case?

I'd love to rule it the same way,Bart.That would make it a 2 under the same ruling above that says the player is still in the lane.Unfortunately,I don't really know if that concept can be applied either to this particular sitch.That damn Tony really got me thinking about this one!Where's all the IAABO rules interpreters when you really need them!


[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 5th, 2002 at 04:05 PM]

[Peter Devana]

3Pt Shot!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Jurassic, I have to admit you do have a good point. What about this; Lane violation, one foot in, one foot out. pick up the foot in the lane and the player is considered out of the lane. Do you think we can rule the 3 pointer the same as in the lane violation case?

Not quite. See 9.7B. This situation is interpreted as trying to evade the 3-second count, so the count continues until the foot in the lane touches somewhere out of the lane (we might not call it like that, but that is the case play).

[Oz Referee]

Of course it is a three. How about this. One foot OOB, one foot in. Lifts foot OOB and catches ball - do you blow him OOB? Of course not.

If the player makes contact with an area of the court - then that is where the player is deemed to be, regardless of whether the contact is made with one, two, three feet or a nose.

If you signal this basket a 2 on my shot - you'd better back it up with a technical, cause you're gonna have to throw me out of the game.

[JugglingReferee]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
[B]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
all the IAABO rules interpreters when you really need them!


[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 5th, 2002 at 04:05 PM]

Jurassic,

It's a 3 pointer.

..Mike (IAABO Member for a kazillion billion years)

P.S.: How the h*ll are ya? What's new?

[Jurassic Referee]

Upon further review,it's a 3!
If the whole world tells you that you are full of sh!t,you should be smart enough to take an industrial size laxative.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Of course it is a three. How about this. One foot OOB, one foot in. Lifts foot OOB and catches ball - do you blow him OOB? Of course not.

If the player makes contact with an area of the court - then that is where the player is deemed to be, regardless of whether the contact is made with one, two, three feet or a nose.

If you signal this basket a 2 on my shot - you'd better back it up with a technical, cause you're gonna have to throw me out of the game.

The above example is like mixing Apples and Oranges.

This whole discussion hinges on the fact that the player was pivoting. You can't have possesion of the ball OOB with the pivot foot down. You would be OOB if your pivot foot was down out of bounds...just as you would be inside the arc if your pivot foot was down inside the arc. Therfore, lift the pivot foot...you must shoot or pass...you shoot, you just shot a two, ACCORDING TO JURASIC!

After saying all that, I don't agree with Jurasic. True, you lift your pivot foot you have to shoot...BUT, since your back foot is behind the arc, you are in 3 point land...3 point shot!

RD

[Bart Tyson]

Mark, do you think the "evade the rule" concerning the 3 seconds is out dated? Now that i think about it, I do believe most player do touch the foot down outside of the lane before going back. One thing is for sure, I would be missing a lot of action if i started watching this kind of 3 second action.